If we’d had that from the off, we probably wouldn’t have had the Hagah.
That said, I don’t we’re likely to get another poll until the agreed-upon point, and I think pushing for one is only going to make them more likely to skip the idea entirely.
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No, actually. If anything, I’m even more confused since I know for a fact that many of those people are already active on these boards.
This wasn’t supposed to be some kind of ‘gotcha’ question, I’m really asking: if this many people are against the contests, why aren’t they using their access to these boards to say so?
Also:
I think @Stuubh’s point is one worth considering; a lot of the recent anti-contest discussion has been against the very idea of having contests, but that doesn’t mean that all of it is. Just for funsies, I went through the very first contest poll topic, and I recognized a lot of the names you showed in that Discord screenshot. Quite a few of them were hesitant to have the contests, as your results would suggest, but most of their concerns were with how the contests were going to be run, not the idea of the contests themselves.
Your results do show that people have an issue with TTV’s contests, but we should consider whether that’s because of the “TTV” part or the “Contests” part; I don’t think there would be nearly as much pushback if you suggested that the rules should be reevaluated, rather than asking for a complete cancellation of all the contests.
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We’ve been denied polls for over a year now. I find this no longer acceptable.
Without vocally pushing for them, the only thing we can do, nothing will ever happen.
Also, it should be in TTV’s own interest by now to quench the constant discussions about this point. They should just jump over their shadow, admit that, and act accordingly.
Otherwise the frustration about the contests, TTV and - from what I gather here and there - specifically Eljay will just keep building. And that can’t be to anyone’s benefit.
And again to make my position clear:
I am opposed to the contests and do not find it just that there are no cancellation polls so that the community can make itself actually heard. I do myself not harbor any animosity towards TTV and its members, though. There can be professional disagreement without it getting personal.
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Good gravy I’ve opened a can of worms
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please make sure.
Is “TTV” the problem?
Is “Contest” the problem?
tbh, well, those who want the contest to continue, after all, are those who haven’t had a chance in the last 20 years.
thet have the chance to participate in what they like and don’t want it to disappear again.
And so am I.
Yeah, maybe it’s important whether “contest” is a problem or “TTV” is a problem.
but, if the contest is suspended for any reason,
There is no guarantee that the same chance will come from somewhere.
That’s why i am discussing it, on the other side of the globe, until this dawn.
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Phew. I hope that the stuff about contest cancelation will stop soon. The Contest continue until after the Lariska contest. That’s it TTV will not make them earlier, just accept that. I would be happy if you would just let this discussion rest.
And as Brickfair is now over, Eljay/Meso have to read through all of these posts soon and we will probably hear something from them. So please just pause a little bit. And wait until we hear something new.
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I think these conversations are pointless and repetitive so I prefer not to get involved. Would I like a cancellation poll after the Hagah? Sure, but TTV has said it’s not on the table. I wish they would confirm the poll after Lariska, but I don’t see much point in discussing that now.
I do think a poll for each character is the ideal solution. The only argument I see against it is poll overload, but given the Hagah contest had 21 polls concurrently in just its first round, it seems TTV and the contest community are willing to accept extra polls when necessary.
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At least,i think what’s certain is that hagah contest caused a lot of problems.
Metru build… contest start delay, vote delay…
(Yes, of course, now that I knew eljay had to recover his health, I can’t blame him.)
Half a year was a long enough time to build up conflict.
At least I don’t want the vote to be delayed any longer.
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There’s been a lot of strong opinions about the contests lately, and while I’m not qualified to say whether the arguments not in favour are a vocal minority, I thought it might be valuable to give my perspective on this as a relatively new member on the TTV boards.
First, a little bit of background. My engagement with Bionicle began with Tahnok and ended with Kalmah (my first and last sets during G1). I ‘grew out’ of Lego in general for a time, and it wasn’t until I picked up Tahu Master in 2015 that the wave of nostalgia hit me and I started looking back at what I’d missed.
I picked up a few sets here and there, mostly 01-04 sets that I’d wanted at the time but didn’t get given for birthdays etc. Wasn’t really into MOCing, aside from a custom Bohrok that has sat on my desk ever since.
Then I saw a reddit post showing off the newly canonised Artakha, and that led me here. Turns out there was a very active Bionicle community that I had no idea existed until I heard about the Canon contests.
Step forward a few months and I’ve now got completed Chiara and WIP Zaria and Marendar MOCs sitting on my desk, eagerly awaiting their respective contests. All 3 of them are miles better than any Lego MOC I’ve created before, mostly due to exposure to new building techniques and inspiration here on the message boards, and all 3 are characters I never knew existed until I discovered the canon contests.
I’ve also got an entry into the second round of the Hagah polls, and I’m checking the boards almost daily.
I guess my point is: the contests have directly driven me to be involved with the community to a level I never have before, and to get much better at building and MOCing. Yes, there are arguments against continuing the contests, but from what I’ve seen those are a worthwhile tradeoff for the increase in community engagement in a property that - if we’re looking at G1 - has been dead for over 10 years.
It’s incredible to me that we even have this opportunity to directly contribute, as a community, to the canon of what should be a long-dead property. Please let’s not throw it away over some headcanon.
My Chiara will still be sitting on my desk after all this, and canon or not it’s still my Chiara.
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Well said. This is essentially my journey to here as well, Onua and Tuma were my first and last sets, btw.
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So since I was gone all day I’m not going to dig up quotes from hours ago just to win the argument even though that won’t happen regardless of whether I’m right or not.
I’ll just say:
Fuzz is right.
If there’s so many people upset over the contests, tell them to come here and say so. Taking part in a discord poll does nothing and TTV will ignore it as they rightly should. If they care, they come here.
Otherwise… The party that’s more than overjoyed that the contests are occurring at all is going to hold not only a vocal majority, but a consistently stronger argument.
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Why is there so much discussion surrounding these dumb contests? If you don’t like the contests, then ignore them. Is it really that hard?
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When it changes the very nature of canon, it’s hard, especially if you’re a diehard canon follower.
but then maybe Nidhiki would actually be green</small?
Thing is, canon’s been changed this exact same way before numerous times - and even after Bionicle was dead; Greg answering questions by its very nature changes things. Those arguing for the end of the canon contests should also argue for the end of the Ask Greg topic because it accomplishes the exact same goal: further definition and the confirmation of new/preexisting information. It ruins headcanons because Greg says it’s one way and not leaving it open-ended.
Unless both things are treated with equal importance I don’t think the existing anti-contest arguments can hold much weight, especially since the option to end the contests not being renewed immediately is “no longer acceptable” when Greg existing for community feedback has existed for years. Nidhiki wouldn’t be only green if that didn’t exist. And TSO wouldn’t be a mammal
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Yes.
As someone who agrees with the local anti-contest group’s devotion to canon, I can tell you that just ignoring canon kind of defeats the point; if I wanted to pick and choose parts of a story, or create my own story, I wouldn’t be following this one.
I clearly disagree with the anti-contest group on how to deal with unknown parts of canon when following canon to the letter, but I agree with them that we can’t just ignore canon whenever it’s inconvenient.
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In Poland, there are many BIONICLE fans like me, who form a unique BIONICLE community, and most of them don’t want the contests to continue. We could go back and forth forever about that.
The important thing is, if you are a part of a community that is in favor of these contests (like TTV), then you might get an impression that the majority of fans want the contests to continue (and vice-versa, if you are in a community that is against those contests, you might think most fans don’t want that).
I think it is impossible to say whether the majority of BIONICLE fans are in favor of these contests or not (there will always be some kind of bias based on which community you are part of), unless we hold a poll. In my opinion a poll is a better way to get those people who are against the contests to participate in the matter than discussing it here. As for why, let me move on to my next point:
Because arguing against anything that the majority of community is in favor of here is a colossal waste of time. No matter what arguments or points you make, most of the TTV users want these contests to continue, so any different opinion will be disregarded as “minority”, or Eljay will show up and straight up say “Yeah, no. End of discussion”. It’s happened before and it’s not really encouraging for people who are against these contest to voice their opinion here. Voting in a poll is much easier, as it requires less effort and less interaction with a community that has opposing views (and isn’t really open to different opinions).
I’m pretty sure they would… if there were any.
I’d say that’s purely a coincidence, but here’s one thing: people’s opinions change. The fact that majority of people voted in favor of the contests in the initial poll doesn’t matter, because many of them could’ve changed their minds after seeing how these contests are actually held and what the results are. I, for example, was largely in favor of these contests, but after seeing that awful abomination that became the canon Helryx, how long it takes to move from one contest to another and the endless arguing over the most pointless of details (“Does the inorganic Suletu have scales or not? What is a Metru build?”), I can tell you in no way I want these contests to go on. I’m just one of the few stubborn people who are actually willing to waste their time arguing over it here, even though it likely won’t change a thing until actual polls are held.
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If by this you mean “TTV can look at the results of the polls and rightfully ignore them because they’re not held on their forum”, I completely disagree. They don’t have to camp in other communities and watch what the prevailing opinion is, but as I said before:
Granted, I would argue this exact thing. But Greg’s answers post-2010 have rarely confirmed major details about character appearances, which doesn’t make the two totally comparable.
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I see. Thank you for writing this. 
I could get understand why the opposition people don’t speak so much on the board.
I’m certainly in favor, but this is quite reasonable.
And surely, as a result of my decision to participate in the discussion in earnest in the last few days, I was able to put into words the thoughts that I had in my heart, but when I will look down on the situation, after all, I realized that I couldn’t solve anything.
(As a newcomer, I feared that I would not be able to argue without being disrespectful to those who have been speaking and discussing on this site for years. Since I came to this site, still a year yet.
However, I felt that it would be simply cowardly not to say anything, even though I am on the site and have seen what is going on, so I decided to express my opinion. After all, it didn’t works well though)
It may have been a waste of a finite life. Instead, I realized that it might be more meaningful to make MOCs for future contests (whether the contests continue or not) and have fun chatting with friends in the community.
(Even if the contest is cancelled, making MOCs and show it on this site and elsewhere may be far more constructive than just fighting over them. Above all, it is fundamentally creative.)
I feared more than anything that I would turn into a mere verbal beast, and I thought I had participated in the discussion carefully enough to prevent that from happening.
But after a break, I took a look at what I had said and realized that I had come very close to becoming an “A monster who is not aware that he is so”.
(My desire to continue the contest has not changed, though)
I’ll have to wait and see how things go. 
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Hi, I don’t make posts very often (my English is not that good) but I want to say what’s my opinion about all of this. I’m in favour of canon contests because I like to have an image of important characters I can visualize in my mind (if I can’t “see” someone or something, I find it difficult to write stories about it), I like to see cool mocs and I like the fact these contests brought new life to the community in general. However, I also understand the reasons of those who oppose the contests regarding the whole headcanon stuff, as I am myself quite scared by the possibility of mocs I don’t like becoming official. And, no matter what people can say, if a character has an official artwork and I want to stick to the canon, I cannot bypass it.
This being said, I don’t get the true reason we cannot get a poll to decide wether to continue these contests or not. The poll-opposers’ main argument seems weak to me (“if someone doesn’t like them, he can come here and tell us”), because a discussion among some message boards members, be they 10, 20 or even 50, will never represent the whole number of people who might vote in a true poll (I, for instance, can barely write a post in English to support my point of view, and I doubt I am the only one over here). I know this kind of poll has already been held in the past (and, as I said, I want the contest to continue), but many things have changed since then and I’m sure at least some people changed their minds as well. When a big community like ours has the opportunity to add new elements to a lore we all feel strongly for, the most important thing is that the majority of us is in favour of such an action, and we can find out if that’s the case only by voting. At the same time I understand we cannot hold a poll every time a character’s contest ends, but at this point, after (almost) three important contests, I think most of us have a clear idea on why each of us wants (or does not want) these contests to take place, and each of us isn’t likely to change it. So, why not vote? Why say “just no, that’s it. Now stop talking”? Let the whole community decide. That being said, I hope the contests will continue, and I want to say that’s just my personal opinion; no one should feel personally attacked by anything I said.
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I saw what you said before and I still hold to my statement. When you’re the one struggling to keep a forum afloat, making communication with Greg, managing a canon contest for the canonization of new elements, you’re very much welcome to ignore the opinions of people who aren’t even on your site telling you what to do. TTV is aware of the polls, and aware of their results, and it will not further influence the decision they’ve already reached about when and how to host the cancellation poll.
Do even the first prerequisite and you’ll have much better leverage to tell TTV what matters.
However the potential for major changes in character appearance exists, like in the topic you made where Greg more or less confirmed genderlocking could be completely ignored. That’s pretty big, considering the topic, and much bigger than what Helryx looks like IMO.
When something as big as going back on the biggest restriction in Bionicle is allowed in the Ask Greg topic - and draws no issue from any parties involved - it’s just a teensy bit hypocritical to protest the contests with such vigor and ignore the Ask Greg topic entirely. It’s changing canon in bigger ways than these contests are and that’s okay, but these aren’t.
Get on the Ask Greg topic and demand its closure, and I’ll retract my argument. But don’t cherry pick.
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If they can’t do that, that indicates an infrastructure issue and they need to get more people on board to help them. It’s all well and good empathising with TTV for having to manage something this large, but conceding that there’s nothing else they can do about it is quite fatalistic. It comes across as though you’re arguing that there’s no problem with an echo chamber.
To be fair, that example doesn’t actually change character appearance since gender is purely psychological.
I mean, that was four years ago. Am I not allowed to change my mind about something?
Not sure what you mean by this. I haven’t been ignoring it.
Maybe I’m wrong, but this just feels like ad hominem. Besides, Greg hasn’t answered any actual lore questions since early last year. No reason to argue against something that’s essentially defunct.