BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

[TheJerminator]

@Stuubh

Yeah that sounds like too much at once.

More than the Hagah?

Maybe the mods decided that simultaneous contests were a bad idea and never want to do it again; I don’t know, we’d have to hear from them. But it seems a little odd to jump to the conclusion that running three contests at once is going to be too much work when we’re currently in the middle of doing four at once. (Plus those four are the most tightly regulated out of any of these contests, no less).

@Stuubh

Perhaps the art portion for the last of the bunch (Chiara right?) could mandate a Hagah-like group shot rule.

I feel like that would defeat the purpose of the two preceding art contests.

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Also, since I apparently forgot to post my reply to this:

@Racie02

@TheJerminator

I’ve got to say that I like the colours in that picture as well; a standard-material silver shield, with a maroon Rhotuka to reference the Sleep Rahkshi’s colour)

Would look horribly out of place on a blue and gold Toa.

Maybe? You tell me.

It definitely stands out, but I don’t see it in a bad way; it’s not uncommon for Toa Tools to not follow the colour scheme of their user.

[Stuubh]

@TheJerminator

@Stuubh

Perhaps the art portion for the last of the bunch (Chiara right?) could mandate a Hagah-like group shot rule.

I feel like that would defeat the purpose of the two preceding art contests.

I assume you’re suggesting a singular art contest for all three then?

If my idea came to be, the previous art contests would be more centered around mask design. For Orde and Zaria the chosen Kanohi could have huge canon implications. Bunching the three (four ig with Gelu) Yesterday Questers together isn’t the same as the Hagah, as the mask designs actually matter.

But then again, maybe it really doesn’t matter. Have TTV decided how canonicity for Orde and Zaria’s masks will work?

@TheJerminator

More than the Hagah?

Maybe the mods decided that simultaneous contests were a bad idea and never want to do it again; I don’t know, we’d have to hear from them. But it seems a little odd to jump to the conclusion that running three contests at once is going to be too much work when we’re currently in the middle of doing four at once. (Plus those four are the most tightly regulated out of any of these contests, no less).

The Hagah were so uniform it only made sense to hold them all at once. The Yesterday Questers should be much more unique from one another, thus deserving their own contests. Plus I think it’s been pretty clear this joint contest was too much work for TTV.

[TheJerminator]

@Stuubh

I assume you’re suggesting a singular art contest for all three then?

Yes.

@Stuubh

If my idea came to be, the previous art contests would be more centered around mask design. For Orde and Zaria the chosen Kanohi could have huge canon implications.

I didn’t think of that; that’s definitely something to take into account.

Here’s another thing, though; unlike Helryx and Artakha, where having a canon mask required custom parts (and therefore an Art Contest), it’s entirely possible to build a purist Orde or Zaria with an existing mask. There’s a chance that their masks could be decided by the initial MOC Contest. It kind of gets close to what was going on with the Hagah, where their masks may or may not be a custom part. (Special change/no change permissions, maybe, like the Hagah?)

Personally, I’d go with what I’ve said for earlier contests: if there’s a chance that an aspect of the winning MOC might not be BS01-approved, we should plan around the chance that it won’t be, and have it decided in the Art Contest regardless of what the winner has.

Heck, if we’re going to do a group shot anyways, Orde and Zaria’s “Art Contests” wouldn’t even have to be full contests; they could be literally just the masks, with the winning mask and winning MOC being combined in the group shot that would take the place of Chiara’s Mask Contest.

Plus, doing it your way would avoid the issues we’re having right now with the Hagah Contest, where artists couldn’t start until all four winners were announced at the same time; instead, they could work on their piece as the winners came out over a period of months.

@Stuubh

Have TTV decided how canonicity for Orde and Zaria’s masks will work?

Whatever we go with, I just hope that we can avoid any non-standard shape shenanigans. If Orde’s final depiction has a Hau, for example, I would want it to be canon that his mask power is Shielding, rather than “he might have a different power in the shape of a Hau”.

It would also be pretty sweet if we could get new powers assigned to any new shapes that might pop up, though I recognize that assigning a power to any new shape would probably go beyond the original scope of the contests.

EDIT: I just thought of another thing: if we go with the above approach, should Orde and Zaria’s Mask Contests maybe be held before their MOC Contests?

[Huemus]

@Stuubh

Have TTV decided how canonicity for Orde and Zaria’s masks will work?

If we can’t add any new mask power to canon, then we should be limited to masks with know power (been actual Lego pieces or 3d models).

@TheJerminator

should Orde and Zaria’s Mask Contests maybe be held before their MOC Contests?

Do you mean the mask power or 3d model? I think having a new mask power contest is kinda hard, since there are limitless possibilities.

[Stuubh]

@TheJerminator

Heck, if we’re going to do a group shot anyways, Orde and Zaria’s “Art Contests” wouldn’t even have to be full contests; they could be literally just the masks, with the winning mask and winning MOC being combined in the group shot that would take the place of Chiara’s Mask Contest

I like that idea.

@TheJerminator

I just thought of another thing: if we go with the above approach, should Orde and Zaria’s Mask Contests maybe be held before their MOC Contests?

And maybe? But sometimes the mask designs are based directly off the MOC itself. Helryx is the perfect example. Probably be better after.

@TheJerminator

Whatever we go with, I just hope that we can avoid any non-standard shape shenanigans. If Orde’s final depiction has a Hau, for example, I would want it to be canon that his mask power is Shielding

I agree 100%. I just hope Greg / BS01 are okay with that.

[TheJerminator]

@Huemus

Do you mean the mask power or 3d model?

Both, hopefully.

The way I’m thinking of it, the polls would include every (eligible) known Kanohi, as well as any custom designs with new powers that people wanted to enter. Maybe any custom design should have to get a certain number of nominations to be considered, to avoid a flood of unbalanced/nonsensical ideas that only the creators think are good.

Where I could see it getting a little bit muddy would be if someone wanted to create a custom design for a known power, such as Healing or Shrinking, because you might then have multiple entries with the same power but different appearances.

@Stuubh

But sometimes the mask designs are based directly off the MOC itself.

I was actually kind of trying to avoid that by doing the masks first; Kanohi designs generally have common standards throughout the Matoran Universe, so it wouldn’t make sense for them to be designed around some random Toa. I feel like the power of the mask should be prioritized over the appearance, and this seems like the best way to do it.

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Also, I know that BZPower had Kanohi Contests back in ye olden days of ten years ago. How did those work? Could we use a similar structure here?

[BazNik]

So it would be like to know, which representation of the Volitak mask is more suitable for Toa Mangai nidiki at the canon contest for the participants in the conversation.

• canon Volitak
• version by Brian K (and other similar to canon versions)
• Volitak mixed with Iruni mask
• Volitak mixed with Hukey’s mask

1. 

2. 

3. 

4. 

[Winger]

I’m pretty sure there’s a definitive answer on this, but I’m not sure what it is, exactly.

[TheJerminator]

@BazNik

which representation of the Volitak mask is more suitable for Toa Mangai nidiki

Personally, I’d like to avoid any non-standard shapes here; I see no reason to say “Oh, it turns out Nidhiki’s Volitak looks like it was merged to a Kualsi”.

I could understand using a hypothetical “non-aquatic” version, but I don’t want any Hagah-type shenanigans.

Personally, though, the existing piece has grown on me a lot. I think Nidhiki would look really good with it, and I’d prefer it over any custom piece.

I used to be opposed to it on account of what seems to be a water-exclusive breathing device merged into the mask, but I’ve since realized that it’s probably a third-party addition to the mask, like a scope on an Akaku.

At the end of the day, though, I wouldn’t be surprised if the standard part is made mandatory (at least in the art portion), since it’s already been used on another standard-Volitak-wearing set (Mazeka).

[Atobe_Brick]

Is there a particular reason why fans would want 3rd option? It seems kind of random to me.

I voted for the canon mask

[Winger]

@Atobe_Brick

Is there a particular reason why fans would want 3rd option? It seems kind of random to me.

To look like the movie appearance/vahki head.

[Huemus]

Is there any reason for Nidhiki to use a non canon Volitak? Is because Lhikan had a custom Hau? I know the mask looks aquatic, but for example a Kiril also have a breathing device look and it’s not aquatic.

What I’m most curious is if his mask must be green or may have the color of his metalic armor (like Lhikan). Personally I prefer him with a green one or at least not silver, to avoid confusing him with Nuparu or Mazeka.

[TheJerminator]

@Huemus

Is there any reason for Nidhiki to use a non canon Volitak?

It’s possible that the piece used on Nuparu isn’t actually the standard shape. It is known that the standard version lacks the tube and visor that Nuparu’s version had, but there may or may not be other differences. (Except if you look at Mazeka, which proves there’s not.)

@Huemus

if his mask must be green

His mask is green:

Official Greg Discussion | Page 238

@Huemus

or may have the color of his metalic armor

I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have metallic armour:

Official Greg Discussion | Page 99

Official Greg Discussion | Page 100

[Takutanuva]

Hmm I wonder if all of those who wanted that green Bomonga metal could use that same metallic for Nidhiki’s armor. I don’t see it really breaking anything from the confirmations we have already.

[Stuubh]

@TheJerminator

@Huemus

Is there any reason for Nidhiki to use a non canon Volitak?

It’s possible that the piece used on Nuparu isn’t actually the standard shape. It is known that the standard version lacks the tube and visor that Nuparu’s version had, but there may or may not be other differences. (Except if you look at Mazeka, which proves there’s not.)

The 2007 Volitak element was likely only reused in 2008 for Mazeka due to the underwater breathing apparatus resembling breathing apparatus’ used in flight. There was a “skybound” theme to 2008. This choice was also made to of course… save money on new elements… I don’t think we should take Mazeka’s Volitak too seriously.

But I’m also not suggesting any “Hagah-type shenanigans” either. A new redesign for the Volitak should of course look like a Volitak. A lot of the custom non-aquatic designs out there still look very much like the original Volitak. But if we as a community decide even those changes are too much, at the very least some of the more obvious aquatic elements could be removed from the official design. A good example of what I mean by that below.

Non-Aquatic Mahri Masks

[CMO]

He wears a green standard Volitak; ie, Mazeka’s mask, but green. This horse has been beaten I don’t know how many times in I don’t know how many topics. But because these topics rapidly swell to hundreds if not thousands of posts in a short span of time, we’ll keep returning to these well-finished discussions/arguments because no one is going to look through the 6,000 posts in this topic alone, let alone in other canon contest-adjacent topics.

[Atobe_Brick]

I don’t see any reason why it’d be prohibited. There aren’t that many pieces in that color, but it’d be interesting to see for sure

[Huemus]

@Stuubh

I don’t think we should take Mazeka’s Volitak too seriously

I do consider Mazeka’s Volitak seriously, since it show a non-aquatic version of the mask and he is an official set. Different is the case of Jovan or Tobduk, where one could say that those mask aren’t the necesary final look. I know they use that mask to reduce cost, but they also could have give him a new mask like Vultraz. But no, he has a Volitak.

[CMO]

@Huemus

Different is the case of Jovan or Tobduk, where one could say that those mask aren’t the necesary final look.

Okay, since I’m here, I want to address this point as I’ve seen it reemerge elsewhere recently. (To reiterate: I’m not calling you out specifically Huemus, you’ve just provided me a means to broach this subject I’ve been thinking about recently).

People make the argument that Jovan, Krakua, and Tobduk’s models “don’t count” because they’re a combiner and fan-made models respectively, and this means that the designers were working with “limited pieces.” This isn’t an argument made just by fans, even Greg’s suggested it as well. He and fans seem to think that “working with the pieces you have” is somehow disingenuous to how the model should “properly” look.

However, I argue that’s a fallacy. Because OF COURSE they’re working with the pieces they have! Official set designers are “just working with the pieces they have.” That’s how sets are made. That’s how we know what characters look like. But as soon as someone, official set designer or fan, merely rearranges those pre-existing pieces into something else, something new, that invalidates the whole effort? This official model is somehow lessened by it? I call foul on this logic.

To give an example: the Lewa Mata set has two shades of green, wears a certain style of Miru, and carries an axe. Every single piece of media we have shows him this way. But, because the set designers were only working with pieces they have, that therefore means that Lewa isn’t necessarily those shades of green, that we can’t reasonably assume other Air types share similar colors, that his Miru isn’t actually shaped that way and looks nothing like how we see it, and that he doesn’t carry an axe, but a machete twice the size of him. All because the set designers were “just working with the pieces they had.”

If we can’t take the models at face value, then really, what’s the point of any of this?

[Takutanuva]

I think the difference in that specific point was that when set designers were ‘working with the pieces they have’ in most cases they were also given and allowed to create brand new pieces to go with sets and at the time of the fans creating MOCs and by the nature of most combiner models, were not able to receive new parts.