BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

Am I missing something or is the post you shared not a Greg quote? It’s the LMBs, he posted there himself instead of users posting PMs with him. You can see a Greg post directly below it.

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Shoot, you’re right, I didn’t even notice that.

Well, that kinda renders moot everything I said (mooter than it already was).

Still, though, a “reasonable to assume” shouldn’t be taken as canonical fact.

Side note: it isn’t often one sees the word “mooter”.

I disagree that there should be any kind of size restriction for this contest, just as there wasn’t one for the Helryx or Artakha contests. The idea behind these contests is to get a good appearance for the characters, not a good model. Regardless of the size of the winning MOC, it will be understood that she is canonically “Toa-sized”.

Now, I’m sure that pretty much every entry will be roughly to scale to the sets, and that the ones that aren’t probably wont be as popular, but I don’t think there should be any kind of official restriction.

Not for Poll 6.

No, it’s really just because Greg said so. The only reason that Metru torsos were mandated is because of the Greg Quote. There’s no need to worry about “advocating for creativity” because there’s no Greg Quotes that apply here in terms of torso build.

But… that’s not a Greg Quote. Isn’t that just some random person answering a question? I know that some Greg Quotes are posted by users because he answered their questions via PM, but I didn’t think that applied to the Chat With Greg Farshtey era.

But couldn’t that also be applied to all of the contests? If that was a criteria, shouldn’t Nidhiki and Tuyet also be mandated as Metru builds?

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Helryx had a similar guideline so your point don’t apply to her

Is a different case because he has never been described as toa size. I think it should be improtant to establish a definition for toa sized since Lariska is going to need to adhere to it too.

Also height has never really hindered the creativity of this community. Having no restrictions or points to adhere too I feel kinda defeats the purpose of this contests being a canon contest.

I know a lot of people want a lot of freedom especially with the strictness of the Hagah and I get that but height restriction is way less restrictive than you need to use x base build or you need to have this armor distribution. Also I’ve said this before but there is really nothing wrong with challenging yourself with limitations, this is never going to be Biocup nor is that the point.

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dunno maybe it should just be shorter than the tallest toa build but taller than the shortest toa build to qualifiy as “toa sized”

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That’s the thing: it was a guideline, not a rule.

There were giant titan Helryx’s entered, and allowed.

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And that’s my intetion with arguing for it, to have it as a highly engouraged guideline but from how I understood Jerminators reply he didn’t want anything in place at all.

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Well, that was a bad moment for me to log off for an hour and a half, huh?

I AM SO SORRY.

I’ve been staring at Greg tuyet quotes for two weeks and, somehow, this one point slipped by me. This is on me, and I sincerely apologize for introducing confusion.

I do think that the point it REPRESENTS stands. If you search the Greg Archive for tuyet quotes right now, what you will find is pages upon pages of him discussing her power level in relation to other characters, but remarkably little about what she looks like…outside of one quote, where he says she might have a metru build. Not definitively, might.

Big difference there between her and the Hagah in that regard. If he overtly said she did or didn’t, this would be a concluded discussion. But he never does. So, even though that quote was wrong, her build is up in the air.

I legitimately forgot about Kongu Mahri lol. That may be a better bottom tier of height.

I didn’t mention the Mata, because set-wise, they are remarkably smaller than the other toa, but that does not translate to canon. I would like to stress that that is my opinion though.

I do think that “not looking out-of-place in size next to Lhikan” and “recognizably a toa” is still a reasonable, if vague, guideline, because (in her primary appearances in TMDoTT, Legacy of Evil, and Reign of Shadows), she is recognized on-sight as a Toa, and no comments about any unusual aspects of her appearance are made. But what that means is up for debate.

Again: I seriously apologize for introducing confusion with the non-greg quote.

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One thing to note is that he says their armor would look similar to Lhikan’s. There is some room for interpretation on whether he means just the shiny bits on their bodies or their actual build, and what “looking similar” really entails (i.e. Helryx “looks similar” to the Toa Mata).

Basically, there really is no point in splitting hairs here until we find a clear-cut, indisputable verdict from Greg.

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My bad, then. I was arguing against mandatory rules (“must be taller/shorter than Model X”), not suggestions.

In hindsight, I maybe shouldn’t have quoted @The_Hollowest_Knight , since that argument was more for a suggestion than a hard rule.

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Actually, on that specific point, there’s actually precedent in-text for the shiny bits not being consistent across the Mangai. In their appearance in Legacy of Evil, Lhikan is described as “Red and Gold”, and Nidhiki is then immediatly described as “Emerald”. Not silver and emerald, not platinum and emerald, just emerald. Which means that, at least for those two, the color distributions are not the same. Which means there’s no reason for it to be the same for the other 9 mangai…which includes Tuyet.

She may have a silver chest piece/sholder armor distributed just like Lhikan, I don’t know. But the text never mandates one way or the other. Which means it should be up to the MOCist, unless someone finds something I missed.

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I was thinking of shaping rather than color; we don’t really know where armor begins and Nidhiki’s body begins, mostly because we haven’t even picked out a design for him yet and we haven’t settled on what “all green” really looks like.

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Pedantic alert: there’s a difference between color and shaping. I think anyone would agree that Lhikan and Vakama are armored nigh identically, even though their color layout is very different. And on the flip side, Nuparu Mahri and Whenua Metru have similar color layout (except for the mask and hands) but their armor is clearly different.

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I may be wrong, but that’s empress Tuyet’s weapon. While it is most likely, it was never established that prime Tuyet had the same weapon.

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…Can we just agree that Greg intended for Tuyet to have a Barbed Broadsword and therefore it should be a requirement for the contest?

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We can talk forever about the minutiae of Bionicle design language, but the pertinent point here is whether a rule/guideline is warranted for this contest. It also makes for slightly fewer hundred posts for others to read through.

It seems fairly clear that there isn’t sufficient reason for a hard rule for any particular design frame, and frankly there isn’t anything much that warrants a guideline other than a very vague ‘wouldn’t look out of place next to Lhikan’.

Re: Broadswordgate, I’d hope the mods get guidance on that issue the same time the Hagah results are sent over, but who knows. I’d personally prefer her prime version to have a Broadsword but I don’t think there’s currently a strong enough case for it to be mandated.

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Oh, I agree, so we have a two for one in canon apperance. I just wanted to unnecessarily introduce another discussion topic

IMO the broadsword shouldn’t be required, but alternative weapons should be banned. Even if she did have the broadsword as her primary weapon, she was often without it in the story.

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Even if she didn’t always carry it*, this is the only canonical appearance we’ll get of her. It should show her fully equipped, just like the Hagah were required to have their spears and shields.

*and that’s debatable; There’s a line in RoS(A) that implies she has it and another that implies she doesn’t(B)

A: Helryx avoided Tuyet’s slashing attack

B: Taking advantage of the moment, [Tuyet] wrested [Axonn]'s axe from him. [implying she needed a weapon]

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I doubt a swordless Tuyet would win. IMO the canon doesn’t require she carry it, so it should be up to voters’ choice. There’s also no saying a broadsword contest couldn’t be held in the future, there have been weapon contests before.

On RoS, the weapon as described by Greg doesn’t seem it’d be good at slashing.