This is just a way to allow people that may not want to entirely recreate a Toa of Water, and at least can utilize a basis they had already made. Not a “copy + paste” so much as a framework to be put back into use. Because there were a lot of really stellar Helryx entries that, with some modification, could work very well as other Toa of Water characters.
Harder to say, we’re just gauging thoughts and opinions. It’s a more difficult call since Gaaki did have a handful of specific restrictions,so the work to change her over would be more. But I wouldn’t say no brashly.
There we go, was looking for something like this. This provides a compelling argument against (at the very least) mandating the Broadsword, but still allowing it.
Also a good point. I recall the Staff of Artakha being a point of contention for many people since it wasn’t allowed. The reason for that was because it was an item he made/involved with, but not one he ever actually used or was seen in the story using. Tuyet has a strong association with the Nui Stone.
Also a good point. This would more answer a question before it came up, in case anyone thought they wouldn’t be allowed to do that.
Every weapon mention in Dark Mirror and The Kingdom
frost still drifting from the sword of [Kopaka] the Toa of Ice.
Note That Kopaka is still a Toa Mata in this universe.
simply gestured with her Barbed Broadsword for them to get moving.
Of note: Both Takua and Dume are in this scene, and Takanuva seemingly recognizes her on sight, likely from the Turaga’s stories.
“Speak or face the power of my Seismic Spear.”
-Bomonga. Note that DM is where the name Seismic Spear came from.
Kualus’ response was a blast of Ice from his Sub-Zero Spear,
Similarly, the name Sub-Zero Spear originated from this serial.
Pohatu answered, grabbing a Protosteel Axe off the wall
Okay, so there’s… this. Note, nowever, that Pohatu Mata doesn’t have a hand weapon; his weapons are his feet Additions. He also grabs it off a wall, implying it’s not just part of his standard gear.
a swipe from Onua’s claws
Onua Mata had claws. Self-explanatory
The first person she brought him to was a tall, strong warrior[Axonn] carrying a massive axe.
I mean, would it be Axonn without an axe? But yeah, he’s got it.
I dislike this simply because I can see people voting for x entry over Y entry just because X has the Nui Stone and Y doesn’t.
I don’t see why not. I can see some people not wanting to do it, simply because they see their moc as X character, but I don’t see any reason to disallow it.
(plus, it’d be stupidly hard to enforce; where do you draw the line between “the same moc but with some armor and weapon swaps” and “a different moc that reuses a lot of the same ideas”?)
Perhaps this could be prevented by making it so that the nui stone is also optional in the art portion. It wouldn’t make much sense to vote for a moc that includes the nui stone, when the artwork could potentially omit or redesign it.
I think the best way to do the Nui Stone would be to strictly leave it to the art portion. Like what Willess12 just said, I’d rather not see any disparities in voting just because one MOC has the stone and another doesn’t. Ditching the stone entirely until just the art portion could allow for artists to have more freedom in creating what they envision the stone to be, just in case there is an objectively ugly stone on an otherwise good MOC as well. But I never read the rules so I have no idea lol
And see, this is also an excellent resource to consider. Of all the items, only one is inconsistent with the primary universe, and it was from a character taking an item from somewhere else. Which might suggest that everything else is the same. This helps add to the thought process behind it.
Granted, the argument otherwise would be that people do that anyways. Some aspects are popular in headcanon, and as such get voted for. It’d be a matter of weighing the pros and cons for voters.
Also not a bad idea. It would add to the creative liberty that artists would have, along with the mask/sword.
If you don’t mandate a barbed broadsword than fans have complete freedom on what tool to give her.
Now I’m okay with that personally, but I know a lot of people wouldn’t be. There’s definitely a big camp who believe the barbed sword should be her canon tool. Conversely there’s a big camp who don’t think prime tuyet should look evil and since the barbed broadsword belonges to the evil tuyet wouldn’t want it to be mandated.
Having a sword be the only mandate means we don’t have anyone giving her random toa tools while ensuring both the anti and pro evil looking tuyet camps will have entries that suit their preferences.
Even if it’s not mandated I think most entries would still include a sword and I think people would be more inclined to vote for an entry that has a sword anyway.
Personally, I don’t think think it’s really necessary to include it because it really is just a rock. Personally, I don’t think entries should be allowed to have the MOC have the embedded fragments as an integral part of the design, but having her hold it or having the embedded fragments as an optional supplementary piece should be allowed.
I don’t think that’s a good idea because if it needed to be modified from the look of Helryx to Tuyet it might as well just be a new entry altogether.
Sword: As discussed, the weapons of pretty much all characters in Dark Mirror were consistent with their main universe selves, making it seem like Greg meant for the sword to be Tuyet’s standard weapon. Mandating it seems fair.
Nui Stone: My inclination is to not to allow it in the MOC portion, but leave it up to the artists whether to include it in the art portion. I think it would work better to leave its design for the art portion rather than limiting it based on Lego pieces (especially as it seems like something where artists might want a little more creative freedom with the design).
Allowing prior MOCs: I see no reason why not. If the community thinks a given MOC is the best representation of a character, it doesn’t really matter who that MOC was originally intended to be.
This is compelling. I chose my Hagah votes based on color scheme, and I likely only would vote for a Tuyet with both a sword and stone if both were optional but not mandated.
I think yes on the broadsword and optional on the Nui Stone. I would love to see some option of giving her a secondary weapon that can be swapped out for the sword if the MOCist so desires, but I feel like that would just confuse things. Better to mandate the one weapon we know she has in some reality than to get into the weeds on whether or not we’re backdoor canonizing something. Perhaps If people want, don’t mandate the broadsword but then do a mini art contest for DM Tuyet where the broadsword is mandatory? I feel like that’s making things more complex than they need to be.
For the Nui Stone I say make it optional. If the MOCist and the artist decide to include it good for them, but no pressure either way. It is, after all, a glowing rock. One you could probably make ornate or uniquely designed but a glowing rock nonetheless.
Also I’m not sure I like the idea of reusing Helryx designs for Tuyet. Though did the rules even disallow this to begin with? I don’t remember there being a rule against entering MOCs you’ve already built, as long as they meet the requirements.
I don’t understand why the Nui Stone should be optional. Either she has it or she doesn’t.
Every past contest has been extremely adamant about including every item in a character’s toolkit (Artakha’s hammer, mandating that the Hagah Art show all Toa Tools) while also banning all other items (Staff of Artakha, Hagah wearing Exo-Toa). Why should this contest be any different? Either Tuyet has the Nui Stone and it should be mandated, or she doesn’t and it should be banned.
Then, having said that, I don’t see why the Nui Stone should be banned, either. Tuyet wielded and used it in both of her major appearances in the story. Why shouldn’t it be mandated just as Helryx’s mace was, or Artakha’s hammer?
The same goes for Tuyet’s Toa Tool. I understand that it’s up in the air as to whether or not the Barbed Broadsword, specifically, will be mandated, but we still know that she has a Toa Tool; a weaponless Tuyet should not be an option.
I think I agree. Nui stone is important to some, but, at the end of the day, it’s a rock. Whether it’s square, spherical, ovoid, cylindrical, triangular, it’s a rock.
It’s the spirit of it. If you enter a MOC that was previously entered as Helryx, it shows you put no thought into how this character might be canonically designed, and instead made a cheap quick entry to try to win a contest.
