BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

[Willess12]

@toaskello

but I haven’t seen anyone advocating for allowing any tool.

@KDNX

If it does not wield a sword, it must wield a different tool , and that different tool will be prime Tuyet’s canonical tool.

@Huemus

a weapon should be mandated and that one would become prime Tuyet weapon.

@Kanohi_Cantri

an artist chooses to draw Tuyet with a barbed broadsword, or any other weapon for that matter, I don’t think it should be disregarded as he/she might very well have done a rather soulful and deserving effort to fit an artistic aesthetic. This shouldn’t be ignored and be honored as her current choice of tool.

I know some of these people have changed their stance, but the argument has absolutely been made.

[toaskello]

@TheJerminator

And anyone on the “allow any tool side” wouldn’t be okay with mandating the sword. There’s really no compromise here because the sides are complete opposites.

Which side are you on? Does the compromise ensure you’ll have entries you can vote for?

The semantics of why the rule is in place shouldn’t matter IMO. It’s not like the ruleset is being canonized, it’s just the result of the contest that is.

@Willess12

I know some of these people have changed their stance, but the argument has absolutely been made. There was one

Ah, thanks, missed those. Would be interested to hear how they feel now.

[TheJerminator]

@toaskello

Which side are you on?

To be honest, I don’t know.

@toaskello

Does the compromise ensure you’ll have entries you can vote for?

Oh yeah, for sure. Either way, I intend to vote for entries with a Barbed Broadsword.

@toaskello

The semantics of why the rule is in place shouldn’t matter IMO

It matters to me. That’s why I’m still here, despite the fact that either proposed rule will allow for my preferred option. Even though the semantics of this discussion probably won’t matter for the final result of the contest, I want to make sure this contest is done right, for the sake of any future discussions where the semantics do matter.

[KDNX]

I currently think the sword should either be mandated or optional with the caveat that there is no other permissible tool. I think MOCists and artists will understand that not depicting the sword will likely harm their chances in the polls.

[Willess12]

@Dag

Allowing a 3d print of a variant Volitak would be the same as allowing a completely different weapon from the Broadsword? Again, that’s apples to oranges. Not sure how you aren’t seeing it.

Allowing a 3d mask for Nidhiki, something that has strong evidence of it contradicting canon, is the same as allowing an Axe-wielding Tuyet, something that has strong evidence of it contradicting canon.

@Dag

It’s not irrelevant to the point I and others have been making, so it appears we’re not on the same page.

Let me state this plainly:

I’m not arguing about whether Tuyet has a sword.

That argument has been had. I doubt I can convince you she 100% did, and I doubt you can convince me it’s still uncertain.

What I’m arguing is whether or not it should be required in this contest. So pointing out “well, she never wielded it, only Makuta disguised as her in Dark Mirror wielded it” is pointless. I know that. You know that. We both made our points earlier in this topic.

And I say it’s pedantic, because I didn’t even say it as a point. The reason I highlighted that IF is that my statement was “IF the rules are X, then that means the official stance is Y.” You’re arguing against the Y, which isn’t even something I said as an argument.

[Dag]

@Willess12

Allowing a 3d mask for Nidhiki, something that has strong evidence of it contradicting canon, is the same as allowing an Axe-wielding Tuyet, something that has strong evidence of it contradicting canon.

If the 3D mask were a Volitak variant, it wouldn’t contradict canon explicity. Yes, there is very strong evidence that it’s the same shape as Mazeka’s, but a variant of the same mask is drastically different from allowing a completely different style weapon for Tuyet other than a Broadsword.

It would be more correct to compare the 3D variant volitak to other swords that are not barbed broadswords.

@Willess12

That argument has been had. I doubt I can convince you she 100% did, and I doubt you can convince me it’s still uncertain.

That we agree on. So again, what’s wrong with the compromise that’s been proposed?

[Mechronus]

I’ve got a question. Has anyone asked Greg if the Barbed Broadsword is used by Prime Tuyet? If so what answer did he give? If not then why haven’t we?

[TheJerminator]

@Dag

It would be more correct to compare the 3D variant volitak to other swords that are not barbed broadswords.

For the purpose of this conversation, this comparison seems wrong. A variant Volitak is still a Volitak, but a non-barbed sword can’t be the Barbed Broadsword.

Either a weapon is a barbed broadsword or it’s not. A non-barbed sword is exactly as wrong as an axe, however wrong that may be. There’s no “close enough”.

[Dag]

@TheJerminator

For the purpose of this conversation, this comparison seems wrong.

Just because something is “more correct” doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong. I’m just trying to point out the major category error being made. As you said, a variant Volitak is still a Volitak, but Willess is saying that allowing that is the same as allowing an axe for Tuyet, which is far different from any sword, let alone the barbed broadsword. That makes absolutely no sense.

[Willess12]

@Dag

If the 3D mask were a Volitak variant, it wouldn’t contradict canon explicity. Yes, there is very strong evidence that it’s the same shape as Mazeka’s,

I can say the same thing about Tuyet:

@Dag

If Tuyet’s weapon were an axe, it wouldn’t contradict canon explicity. Yes, there is very strong evidence that her weapon is a Barbed Broadsword,

---

@Dag

It would be more correct to compare the 3D variant volitak to other swords that are not barbed broadswords.

How is that any different?

A sword that isn’t a Barbed Broadsword… isn’t a Barbed Broadsword, and an axe… isn’t a barbed broadsword. The only difference is that one is more similar to a Barbed Broadsword, but following that train of thought, an axe is more similar to a BB than, say, a Cordak Blaster. The point is that none of them are a BB, and a 3d print isn’t the Mazeka mask

@Mechronus

Has anyone asked Greg if the Barbed Broadsword is used by Prime Tuyet? I

Some people proposed having TTV ask for clarification on the BB when they sent in the winning Hagah, but I’m not sure if they ever did.
But I can almost guarantee his answer would be “I dunno” or “I don’t remember”, or “…”. Greg is a Ko-Matoran confirmed.

[Tarkur]

@Dag

As you said, a variant Volitak is still a Volitak, but Willness is saying that allowing that is the same as allowing an axe for Tuyet, which is far different from any sword, let alone the barbed broadsword.

Because specifically for Nidhiki its been confirmed by greg that his volitak is standard shape because Mazekas volitak is. The breathing tube on Mazeka was not an addition given to him by the oomn and Mazeka’s is identical to Nuparu’s volitak without the hose and visor pieces which ergo makes the Volitak piece standard shape.

[TheJerminator]

@Dag

Just because something is “more correct” doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong.

Exactly. An axe and a non-barbed sword are both equally wrong, in the sense that neither matches the description of the Barbed Broadsword, and they should not be treated differently.

[EDIT: This comment has been drastically altered from the original because the original implied an argument that I didn’t mean to make]

[KDNX]

This discussion has been had. The official stance is that they won’t ask him because it’s more than likely Greg will just say “I dunno” because it’s a small detail from a story he wrote probably about 14 years ago now

[Mechronus]

Ok that’s good to know.

Side note, should a new thread be opened at 10,000 posts? (Just spitballing here, not saying we have to)
My reasoning is that 10,000 posts is a lot to read as it is and we’ll probably get to 20,000 by the start of a second round of contests. That’s a lot to read to catch up

[TheJerminator]

@Mechronus

Side note, should a new thread be opened at 10,000 posts?

The 2016 Discussion topic got past 30,000 posts before it had to be shut down due to size:

BIONICLE 2016 Discussion Topic

Topic closed due to overwhelming post count. #please continue the discussion on the new G2 topic here.

(And then the replacement is relatively tiny anyways, due to the cancellation of G2)

@Mechronus

My reasoning is that 10,000 posts is a lot to read

That number doesn’t get any smaller just because it’s split over multiple topics.

[Racie02]

@TheJerminator

That number doesn’t get any smaller just because it’s split over multiple topics.

Makes it easier to find posts you know to be more recent, though.

[TheJerminator]

@Racie02

Makes it easier to find posts

That’s true, I suppose.

Though it can also make it harder, if you don’t know what topic it’s in. For example, during all the discussion about the Hagah, I’d often have to go through two or three topics before I found the quote I was looking for, because I didn’t know which of the similar topics it was in.

If there’s going to be a second topic, it should be at an important point in the contests in general. Perhaps a new “Second List Discussion Topic”, if/when we get there.

[Racie02]

Or maybe a new topic after tuyet’s contest finishes, and perhaps discourage discussion about post-tuyet contests until after this one, just so pertinent discussions can be had on the new topic.

[Eljay]

@Mechronus

My reasoning is that 10,000 posts is a lot to read

No one has to read them to participate in the contests, it’s only if they wish to offer input/feedback.

We can consider it, but a new topic isn’t in the cards for the time being.

[darkbrick999]

It would make sense to make a new topic when we get to the 2nd list, though.