I don’t even know who’s arguing for what anymore. I thought Dag wanted sword-optional and Racie wanted sword-mandated.
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https://biosector01.com/wiki/Tuyet
The main timeline version of Tuyet was never shown or described to wield a Barbed Broadsword, nor was it confirmed that she ever had one.
Bomonga carries a Seismic Spear
Even BS01 can’t make up their minds.
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Well yeah. We all know how Greg writes. He probably didn’t know she had a Barbed Broadsword until he wrote that sentence.
Pretty sure that’s still our stances.
I see, I must have misread. FWIW, I don’t see any reason to mandate something that was never explicitly confirmed. The contests haven’t done that before.
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Technically, they have. The rules about where the metallic armor could be placed on the Hagah – must have metallic thighs and feet, no metallic shins or hands, etc. It just hasn’t been something this big before.
Edit: I am Kapura.
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Actually, they have.
Many of the parity rules for the Hagah had no canon basis, such as the minimum/maximum height limits, or the requirements that the metallic armour be in the exact same locations as on Norik and Iruini. I strongly disliked those rules.
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The basis for those rules was in set design. There was no reason to deviate from the established Toa Hagah Teridax template. If they were released as sets, the designers would not have done that - do any of the Toa Nuva have armor elsewhere than on their shoulders and chest?
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Yeah, if that were the case, Bomonga would never have been allowed.
(yes, it shouldn’t have been allowed anyway, but that’s because it broke the rules about the height comparison and shield holding, not because of the Torso limbs)
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It only broke the rules as written, not as intended. If you think Bomonga is egregious, I’d like to hear your opinion of Pohatu and Onua.
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I don’t. That’s my point. I’m saying Bomonga would never have been a set in 2005.
Pohatu Nuva
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Fair enough, but mine is that he follows a tradition of nonstandard builds in clone waves set by Pohatu and Onua.
Also, where’s Pohatu’s extra armor?
Set designers don’t follow pre-established canon rules, nor do they make them.
But who defines that template? Does the template also include Metru-shin forearms? Should we have mandated the use or silver or gold armour?
One could also say that there’s no reason to deviate from the “rule” that alt-universe characters use the same weapons as their prime counterparts, yet here we are.
They also wouldn’t have given Kualus a scarf, or made Bomonga with unique proportions, or used any of those metallic colours.
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His feet.
Granted, that is very debatable. You could say they count as weapons. You could also say that his weapons are his climbing claws, and the feet additions are just useful boot armor. What is definite, however, is that is that he has metallics in a place none of the others do.
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That was never my claim.
Sets are the highest form of canon.
Those are his tools, alongside the climbing claws.
See Pohatu and Onua.
See SPFP’s post on the matter.
He never said it would be revealed in ItD, just that it would be revealed soon. And if he meant ItD, why did he not end up showing it there?
…So in a different context?
I take it that means you didn’t read a thing I said.
I never said it was true, and I don’t think it is. It could be, but we won’t know until the contest, and we will never know if the sword ends up being mandated.
So then you understand how it was a waste of everyone’s time to argue that Tuyet’s sword should be mandated simply because every contest before has had weapons mandated?
Do you know what explicit means? When I say explicitly, I mean did Greg ever say something to the effect of “Yes, Tuyet’s Toa Tool is the Barbed Broadsword” or some other certain wording like he used for Artakha’s hammer. If TTV requires explicit confirmation to mandate something, that means the sword cannot be reasonably mandated.
That’s a good point, however as Willess said, it hasn’t been something as big as the sword. So the question is: is TTV fine with mandating the sword like they have with the Hagah height and armor placement, or is there a limit to how major a mandate should be to not just be on the basis of assumption and implicit evidence?
Honestly, what Lego would or would not have done is super debatable. But the thing is, we’re not Lego. Lego might have given Pouks metallic shin guards, or they might not have; they might have made Bomongus, or they might not have.
But does it really matter? We’re not here to design sets to sell to children. We’re here to design canon characters, and there was nothing in canon to suggest that Bomonga wasn’t chonky, or that Pouks didn’t have metallic shin guards.
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Okay, focusing on the BB, I actually have a question. This isn’t me being snarky or anything like that, this is me genuinely asking, as I think it’ll help clarity.
If you are currently arguing for the BB to not be mandated, or if you want the BB to not be mandated but have been silent (or near-silent) thus far: what is the outcome you want? Why are you advocating for that position?
I can personally think of a couple reasons:
1: You want the canon version of Tuyet to be depicted without a weapon
2: you want to build Tuyet without a weapon yourself
3: You want Tuyet to be depicted with a different weapon
4: you want to build Tuyet with a different weapon yourself
5: It’s less about the BB, and more about the abstract concept of mandating something without absolute canon confirmation.
6: Tuyet’s weapon is not the BB, but the Nui Stone
I can see the arguments for all of the above, but they are very, very different arguments, and each require very different conversations. They are also not a complete list. Instead of going back and forth throwing the same quotes at each other, I want to know why the non-BB position is being advocated. The answer, whatever it is, may provide a basis to further the discussion.
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So then why are you saying that the set design is somehow indicative of some broader canon appearance for the rest of the Hagah?
In terms of that character’s appearance? Yes.
In terms of determining other characters’s appearances? No.
Norik’s set tells us what Norik looks like, not Gaaki.
And you should see my post about how the set designers probably would have made Bomonga slightly shorter than Whenua Metru, thereby making the height rules bad because Lego would have broken them.
We can sit here all day and theorize about what the set designers would or wouldn’t have done, but the fact is that none of it is canon, and it never should have influenced the rules.
Honestly, the Hagah mandates were a bigger deal to me than the mandate of the Barbed Broadsword would be. The Hagah rules were even weaker than this, because for the sword we at least have indication of what was probably intended.
This one:
I want Tuyet to have the Barbed Broadsword, and my own entry has it.
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5 for me. I’m also aware that there may be people who don’t wish to have her sword canonized for various reasons. I think it’s better for the community to be allowed to decide rather than have rules passed down from on high - everyone hated the Hagah rules on- and off-board, saying that TTV “hated fun” and other crap like that. We don’t need more rules when less will suffice.
Edit for further thoughts: though I’m aware that these are not creativity contests, but canon contests, as I’ve stated ad nauseam, I am sympathetic both to users who would like more room to creatively breathe when MOCing, and those who don’t have the parts for a sword. Mandating the sword will only shut people out of the contest. Making it optional expands our pool of entrants. I do believe that a swordless MOC victory is a million-to-one chance, but it’s better to let more people enter with whatever oddball ideas they’d like, even if it won’t go anywhere - see pink Pouks.
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I want a Tuyet I wouldn’t mind being canonized.
I still have no stance either way, but as this debate has been going on, I’ve started leaning more towards no sword. This is because more focus should be on the Nui Stone (which we should all agree is a larger part of her character than the sword), and depending on how creative the art is, it might be too cluttered with the sword and Nui Stone.
So while my answer right now is
I do think I lean slight towards
But I don’t think I’ll know exactly what I want until I see what entries I can choose from. But if the sword is mandated, that limits the choices.
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