BIONICLE Quest For Mata Nui Fan Game Discussion Topic

LEGO BIONICLE
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Interesting.

Kind of a strange decision. The creator specifically withheld engine information because he wanted people to talk about the game on its own merits, but it seems like waiting until now to talk about it and also attempting to pass it off as its own thing (even calling it the “Metru engine” despite not having designed a single piece of it) have created more trouble for him.

If he had said so from the beginning, there might have been less backlash. If he made his intentions clear that the engine didn’t matter to him and he wanted people to take the game for what it is, then that should have been done from the start.

It just seems strange to me that he’s really expecting people to download another game just to play his. I actually have a battle.net account, and even I don’t want to download a game I won’t ever play just to play Bionicle. Just seems like a really awkward process, especially after it was hyped up so much.

I’m less bummed about the multiplayer thing, probably because I didn’t really have much intention to actually play the game myself, but it does seem odd to me that Crainey feels like it doesn’t fit the atmosphere. I think a major component of the first year of Bionicle was all 6 Toa being together, teaming up to find masks. Unity is a core of the series, after all. So why, if the system already works, does he not want to just put it in? Doesn’t really diminish the experience of the single player if that experience still exists.

If he wants to ■■■■■ gears to focus on the singleplayer, then he should do that. Multiplayer should come second, not simultaneously.

Not to mention the easy answer to the “5 Tahus on the beach” issue is to just allow only one of each Toa per group. Yea, it might suck a little for the player who wanted to be Tahu, but it’s a possible trade-off for keeping the atmosphere intact.

Also, this totally explains my questions about the multiplayer aspect and the servers. He can support multiplayer because it’s actually running off Blizzard’s servers, not his own. It all makes sense now, and probably should have clued us in on what engine he was using.

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82

Right from the start, there were concerns that LEGO might take the game down. Now that we know that this game is basically a Starcraft MOD, we are the risk of also having Blizzard Entertainment take the game down, because the game’s code is based off something they’ve created. We are now at the risk of two major corporations taking the game down.

Now that a lot of what we’ve been told about this game turned out to be a lie, I’m not sure how much we can actually trust Crainy and his project.

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83

So you’re saying we should take what he says with a Crainy of salt?
:yum:

I don’t think this is a concern, if this is true:

If it’s been allowed before, why should this be any different?

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It’s shocking to me how quickly hype can transform into fear and dread and distrust. We don’t know what’s going to happen, we can only hope it’s something like what we were promised.

I will say, the removal of multiplayer severely limits my excitement for it. I was hoping to play this with my friends while I’m in college, no matter where they were, and now I am going to have to play it alone. Sure, Crainy’s reasoning is acceptable, but there are so many ways of going about this that could satisfy everyone. If you want your “Tahu on the beach” moment, play by yourself before you play with others. Multiplayer, besides just how incredible the game appears and the fact that it’s Bionicle, was probably the biggest thing I was looking forward to.

And now, the game engine. I really, really don’t see why this happened this way. Why couldn’t this have been revealed long before? The backlash could have already passed by now, and instead it’s doubled because now we’re wondering what else is being hidden from us.

To quote a great man, “A team that trusts is a team that triumphs.” The Bionicle fanbase is a team. We fight to keep our world alive. But right now, we can’t trust, and I’m not sure if we’ll ever triumph.

Except for SuddenlyOranges and Sokoda, of course

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85

I’m not a lawyer, but as far as I’ve understood it it goes like this

Blizzard are okay with hosting a custom game

Lego are, if not legally at liberty to say they’re okay with a fan game, willing to ignore it as long as nobody forces their hand legally.

Blizzard hosting a Lego fan game, though. That is a HUGE legal mess. That’s one huge company hosting imagery owned by another huge company, which in copyright terms is a pretty huge deal. It’s a pretty huge deal that could have gone unnoticed, except of course the cat is very much out of the bag with all that mainstream-web publicity the game got. If it ever comes up in court, it can backfire massively on both companies, because they really can’t pull a “We didn’t know” when it was plastered all over the gaming internet a couple weeks ago.

TL;DR Both companies could be okay with it morally, but the legal system they live in can basically force them to be the bad guys here.

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image.png580×513 315 KB

Do any of those look like fan-made games based on a particular franchise? No.

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That’s the thing, you’re looking at the arcade. Other ip’s aren’t allowed on the arcade. They are allowed on the other sections.

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Ah. I don’t play Starcraft, so I didn’t know that. Could anyone give a snapshot of that?

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I haven’t personally found any other ip’s out there, but I’ll see what I can find tomorrow. (I’m on mobile right now)

Screenshot_20200521-175522_Chrome.jpg1080×2220 790 KB

Basically, as long as it’s not deemed copyright infringement, you’re good. Acceptable Use indicates stipulates that as long you aren’t making money, you aren’t infringing copyright. Hence why it can’t be put on the arcade. Obviously, the ip holder can still issue a Cease and Desist, but the point stands.

Also, you should give SC a shot, it’s pretty good, if a tad bloody. The skirmish mode is the best imo. Good if you like RTS games.

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I would if I was big into gaming, but it would just take time form school.

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Fair. (C&C is more worth your time anyway)

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Yea, as others have pointed out, that isn’t the issue. The Starcraft II engine was put out there for public use by Blizzard. Crainy wouldn’t have access to it otherwise without being an ingenious (and undetectable) hacker.

What they do dictate in their use policy, though, is that they have the right to remove any custom games made using their engine from their service if it breaks copyright law.

Thing is, copyright law in the US, let alone the entire world, is highly variable. The game might fall under Fair Use policy in some jurisdictions, but not in others.

Now, I’m no lawyer, and my knowledge of Fair Use is limited at best, but as far as I can tell the game could still be infringing on LEGO’s rights to the IP. People often say that things are fine as long as you don’t make money, but that isn’t necessarily true. Considering the game’s purpose isn’t educational, it isn’t parody, and that it doesn’t really transform the media in any particularly extensive manner (it’s the exact same story and characters, even LEGO parts that TLG owns) it’s highly possible it still qualifies as copyright infringement.

The key factor here is if LEGO actually decides to enforce their ownership or not. I can’t say for sure if Blizzard would act on it either, but if LEGO did, it would surely force Blizzard to remove it as fast as possible.

If LEGO decides to act, they would force Blizzard’s hand. If Blizzard acts first, then the issue is settled for LEGO anyways since the game can’t be released anywhere else.

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93

NaK and Jay about it with @Eljay and @Mesonak

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94

The thing that scares me with the multiplayer reveal isn’t that we’re not getting multiplayer (I’ve seen other games choose to focus on a Single-Player experience and turn out much better for it) but the fact that the multiplayer was a feature promised in the trailer.

How many other features “promised” in the trailer will we not actually be seeing? Will we still be getting an infected Lewa fight? Will we still have “diverse playstyles?” Or will these things also get cut for artistic reasons?

I have no issues with deciding that a single-player experience is the way to go, but do that before you release your multiplayer trailer or you’ll get slammed with backlash. It worries me that Crainy has had the reported six years of production on this project and only now has decided whether it should be a single player experience or not - something which should be an early and core decision in game design.

The StarCraft 2 thing probably bothers me more, simply because I’m not going to be downloading that unless the game turns out to be really good. You can also expect way less media coverage now that that’s a known detail.

But on the whole, I’m definitely less bothered by what’s been revealed and more bothered by the fact that “shocking reveals” have needed to take place at all. This project did a very good job of presenting itself in a professional and well-planned way - I am starting to doubt whether it is actually as thought-out behind the scenes, though…

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96

People were saying “Starcraft mod” from the comments on the first trailer long before this came out. There was some argument over which game it was a mod of in other comments, so I ignored it as obnoxious internet criticism. But it now makes me wonder who knew what.

It’s possible that a Crainy didn’t know about these complications that people are mentioning here, but 6 years is a long time to not figure this out. Anyway, not keen on downloading Starcraft II, or any game that is 40 GB, and I don’t trust corporations. My advice to Crainy is simple: take it off this engine, go back to basics, and reprogram the entire thing. If you’ve spent six years making this, you probably have the patience for that. Just take the backlash, suck it down and do this thing right. Put it on an engine that doesn’t have these legal problems and gives you full control over the game.

I do feel sorry for Crainy though. 6 years is my entire community college career - I would hardly want to spend that entire time being a pawn of a heartless corporation. This is what he’s familiar with - 6+ years of making Starcraft mods? I would wish that miserable fate on no one. :frowning:

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What is it with people and the heartless corporations?

Trust me, SC 2 is well worth the 30 or so gigs of space you’ll need. Even then, any major game out there is probably around 30 GB. XCOM 2 is 76+ GB’s with all expansions, and SC 2 has all of it’s expansions from the get-go.

As someone who has built his own game, and taken game design courses, simply “taking it off the engine” is far more difficult than you make it seem. Switching engines would require him to redo practically EVERYTHING from the ground up. New code, new mechanics, new triggers, potentially new models, VFX and SFX, (depends on whether this new engine shares file types with the SC2’s engine). You expect him to throw out 6 years worth of work, switch to a new engine, do almost all of it all over again, just because you are scared of Blizzard?

Crainy is a veteran of SC2 modding. He knows what he’s doing. I highly doubt he didn’t consider any of this beforehand.

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98

This would be a very weak defense if lawyers decided to get uppity. Any copyright lawyer seeing this would argue that it’s Blizzard making money, in a roundabout way, by allowing this use of Lego’s intellectual property. Blizzard knows this argument could be made, so they’ll have to cover themselves.

It’s not about what either party wants to do, it’s about what the legal system DEMANDS that they do.

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But if they’re not making money, there’s no problem, right? Crainy’s refused even donations to make sure no money is involved.

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That depends on a lot of factors that I am not willing to speak about with confidence, but when it’s two international corporations weighing their interests against a small fan project’s, and a lot of big jurisdictions dont even have “acceptable use” as a copyright clause, AND the project has lost the chance of flying under the radar, it’s a very, very risky move.

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101

That’s kinda what’s changed my stance in the past day or so. The fact that it cannot hide anymore makes it much more likely to get hit.

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