Yeah pretty much. Don’t ask me, it’s Var’s idea, I was just putting it out there for those who didn’t know yet.
I said this myself, but I think it’s better if Toa of Earth control the actual earth/dirt (but can’t control plants) and Toa of Stone control actual stone/rock.
That way, both elements work.
2 Likes
I was speaking in the context of what Slime proposed, obviously. Don’t get your gears in a jam.
But I would agree with this, just for the record. IMO Nature fits in better with the elements of the other Toa. Not to rule out Iron as an element for a future Toa.
1 Like
I think you just answered your own question.
1 Like
Au Contraire, rather I go on to further define the question - in the same manner that nature needs to be further defined.
We have clear and outlined definition and uses of all the original elements, and for ‘nature,’ we lack that.
In addition, my statement only brings up more questions. The comparison to the original elements, which we automatically define, contrasts the vague description of nature with those.
On top of my original questions, how about this one: What exactly would a G3 toa of the green control? There are so many elements within the definition of nature, that it seems almost antithetical to the concept of a base construct. As opposed to Iron, which is a very specific kind of material.
The big question is: What is ‘clear’ about nature as an element in the first case, let alone a better option.
Fire water earth air ice and nature are all mythical elements, iron is a periodic element, nature better fits the mythical themeing of the other elements, that was my point.
Now you’re moving the goal posts to ‘define nature tho’, you’re conflating mythical elements with scientific elements, you’re saying iron is a better choice because it’s actually an element, when you yourself point out how the others aren’t actually elements. And obviously a toa of nature would have control over plantlife and perhaps simple animals, personally I’d give them the ability to communicate with more intelligent animals as well but I digress. It’s obvious when we say nature we’re referring to something at least in the ballpark of the green and jungle, and you clearly have at least a general idea of their powers.
3 Likes
Iron is basically the catch-all term for Metal when it comes to Bionicle, and Metal actually is a classical element, according to Chinese philosophy, anyway. It’s included in their main five, alongside Wood, Fire, Water, and Earth.
So from that point of view, it technically still counts.
3 Likes
Yes, perhaps, however it is notheless not similar to the other naturally occurring mythical elements, metal is not a common material, the vast majority of metals need to be extracted from the earth. The other elements are forces of nature so to speak, whereas metals are a material.
Also, I’d argue that one of bionicles stronger draws was the juxtaposition of metallic beings and nature, which is lost somewhat with the addition of metal as an element, I’d argue the more scientific elements of g1 did make it lose something, granted they were added fairly late in the run, so it wasn’t missing out of the gate like it would be here.
1 Like
Where have I heard this before… oh right, I said it four days ago. I can see the conversation is starting to cycle.
1 Like
because my last post were in i quoted someone i had talked to in regards about elemental power was taken down because the quote contained words that were not allowed on the message boards, i will instead just show two parts of what he said
This was something i thought of some time ago and if you are realy creative with wind then you can possibly use that element to influence the other elements a bit. like causing friction in the air to start a lightning bolt to set things on fire or control the air pressure to guide sources of water through the air and even pressurize it into a pump or a beam. there’s a lot when you try to think of aerokinesis with a bit of science behind it
i like thinking of what you can do with powers that tend to have a simple concept but gives you the freedom to experiment and play around with things.
hopefully this might give something interesting to think about.
Completely off topic but where do these five elements come form? I’ve never heard of them before and the contrast between them and the five Greek elements (Fire, Water, Earth, Air and Aether) is quite interesting
Ok, here’s what I’m sure will quickly become a controversial idea:
The main issue here seems to be the similarity of earth/stone, and ice/water to a smaller degree. I propose that we solve this problem the same way Bionicle solve all of it’s plot holes: by writing it into the story. TTV has already stated that they don’t want all of the villages to be on great terms with each other, they want want there to be rivalries between them. So, perhaps earth and stone are similar because they share some sort of common ancestry, and maybe because of that they are on particularly good terms with each other. Same for water and ice, they’re distantly related tribes and this like each other more than the other tribes. Now this obviously leaves an issue with fire and air, each of the other elements are in allied pairs which leaves them as needing to be paired together as the last two, but they obviously don’t share any sort of ancestral link, however I would argue that they still make sense together. You see, fire and air are simbiotic. Fire needs oxygen to burn, without it the flame dwindles and dies. On the other hand, too much fire and all the air in the room gets used up. So they kinda make sense together.
Now, since I’ve outlined which villages are on good terms with each other, obviously we need to talk about who’s not on good terms with each other. I recommend this is done through opposites, so fire and I’ve hate each other, obviously, but after that it may seem like there are no more opposites, I disagree. I’d say water and stone would be opposites, as water erodes stone, also stone is ridged where water goes with the flow, so they are contrasting in that way too. This leaves air and earth which, to me, also makes sense. Being it that air is free flying, where earth is grounded and stable, once again contrasting ideals. Through this design each village has one village that they like, one village that they hate, and three villages that they are chill with.
TL;DR
- is good terms
- is bad terms
= is chill
Earth + Stone
Water + Ice
Fire + Air
Fire - Ice
Water - Stone
Air - Earth
Fire = Earth, Stone, Water
Ice = Earth, Stone, Air
Water = Earth, Fire, Air
Earth = Water, Fire, Ice
Air = Water, Ice, Stone
Stone= Air, Ice, Fire
8 Likes
I actually like this idea a lot but it still doesn’t resolve the issue of some elements being too similar.
The idea is that the similarity is no longer a problem because now it’s a feature. They are similar because they share a common ancestry, and thus were once one tribe before they split into two. That’s the idea anyway.
I get the idea but it could still lead to confusion as to how the Earth Tribe is different from the Stone Tribe
I mean, in my mind it was never really an issue. To me the power sets were always very distinct, to compare them to water/ice, which are also similar, but no one has a problem with because they are distinct: I see stone as ice, using very solid constructions out of stone to make his attacks, earth on the other hand I see more like water, using waves of dirt to make attacks. I guess in my head it was never a problem because to me earth meant dirt which I treated as a liquid rather than a solid in terms of use.
2 Likes
one lives underground, the other lives above the ground.
the difference could not just stop there, with the different tribes having different ideas, like the water villagers are peacefull and wants to trade and socialise with the other tribes, thus they lived near the oceans, while the ice tribe wants to learn, study and keep to themself, thus they moved to the top of the mountains so that they would not be disturbed.
how about the toa being the ones with different elements and the island villagers being made up of three… four elements… if possible, (just that the unrest on the island have, as @Matanui606 suggested, caused some of the tribes to split into two new tribes. We could even have the G3 Rahkshi be the ones who have caused the tribes to split up and go against one another. You know, a “divide and counqer” tactic).
That does make sense, honestly I can say that there is a good difference between the two and I can say they could work seperately but I would also like to see more main elements into the spotlight.
I don’t have a problem with incorporating more elements, my issue is with tampering with the main six. Year one should be about them, after that you can use them to explore more of the world and meet Toa of other elements, but we should start with the Toa Mata, as we always have.
Also, just as a PDA, for some reason we have four other topics for what is essentially this same discussion. Here’s some links in case you didn’t know about them:
3 Likes
I would like to point out that this was the original question, not a new one.
In addition, I am not saying that Iron is better because it is an actual element, rather it is not the ‘less obvious’ choice, and it has better definition.