I constantly been hearing throughout the G3 discussion the same old tropes, the same old characters, villains, island location, story elements…we already hd two generations telling similar ot exactly the same stories. I want something new from Bionicle.
If I have another Story about animals attacking villages, then snake people attacking them with a giant black daddy dueling a chosen one, Im gonna burn someones house with a lemon.
I really can’t sum up the previous conversation in a couple of bullet points, wouldn’t you agree @SirKeksalot?
And ultimately the problem is that we can’t come to a consensus on anything, some don’t want any changes, some want minor changes, some want major changes.
Here’s the thing, how new does it have to be for you to be satisfied? And how new does it have to be before it stops being bionicle?
Not a repetition of the same old tropes. New enough to feel DIFFERENT from G1 and G2 but still retain the core aspects (Masks, Tribal Setting etc.)
Transformers has done this before. Why can’t Bionicle?
Hey, I’m not saying that it should be changed, I’m commenting that it is something which I personally don’t agree entirely with. It’s not something which needs changing, just an observation.
If Lego were to greenlight another reboot, they’d be having the same conversation. Not everyone agrees on everything
I will agree however, this is starting to get kinda crazy. People are just refusing to accept that ya know, people disagree on things.
To avoid repeating a done-to-death argument, I basically suggested that non-rusting metals are more common on the Matoran’s planet, so they’re easier to access. The rusty iron in the sand is there partially for the coolness of a red desert, which is a unique setting; Pohatu gets it because, well, there’s iron in it.
G2 tanked because it sucked. It had a bad story with weak characters. Simplicity wasn’t at all the problem.
It can be new without re-writing the whole thing. Already, it looks like the different tribes will be more like the Greek city-states than states in a single country, and I’m happy with that because it presents an interesting change to the story’s dynamic that will affect the plot without making it unfaithful to G1. But I also like the simple approach to elements that G1 took, and changes to that are not something I want unless they outright improve upon the formula.
Am I supposed to derive some meaning from this, or…
Let me try:
-606 doesn’t want Stone replaced because he believes it would warrant too much change to the setting and Pohatu’s character
-I want it because Stone is an obsolete element and Iron was the best solution I could summon, and I don’t agree with 606 that the change comes with all that many drawbacks.
-We bickered for 2.5 days, then just sort of stopped.
So yeah, I did it.
What “same old tropes?” Specifically, what tropes that are somehow done away with via an unnecessary convolution of a system of powers which can stand to be modified, but not outright reworked? It’s like balance in a MOBA–if a character is not broken, why not simply buff or nerf them as opposed to reworking them, especially when many players happen to like their current kit?
Transformers didn’t rewrite the system of its core gimmick.
Explain to me how something can feel different from all of previous Bionicle and still feel like Bionicle?
Ok, so I have an idea [yes, based on Sirkeksalot’s idea] that might smooth things over where the Earth/Stone debate is concerned;
Earth commands the minerals [dirt, sand, and non-metalic rocks] while ‘Stone’ commands the metals [if we’re going to eliminate Stone because its too similar to earth, then why not -in a sense, at least, cross over Iron into Stone?]
Meanwhile; all the Toa Mata are ‘Toa Hybrids’; Toa that posses two Elements [adds more depth and mystery to their existence and unknown origin, I’d say]
Tahu is a mix of Fire and Plasma;
Gali a mix of Water and Sonics
Pohatu a mix of Iron and Earth [or stone, what have you]
Onua a mix of Earth and Gravity
Kopaka a mix of Ice and Psionics [could explain why he’s so quiet]
And Lew a mix of Air and Plantlife
I dunnuh’, its all rough-draft right now [that’s why Pohatu and Onua share elements, unlike the otehrs], but I think its an interesting idea to go off of without completely having to completely rewrite base aspects of the source material
You left out a lot of information there, but I guess it gets the point across.
You’re making it needlessly complex, it’s not that we think kids are dumb, or that we just ‘don’t like change’, it’s that you’re trying to fix something that isn’t broken.
Transformers keeps the premise and lore relatively unchanged between series, this isn’t a ‘truk not munky’ situation.
THEMATICALLY it’s Bionicle and has all the core aspects that both G1 and G2 had (such as Masks and the tribal settings) Storywise it’s different from G1 and G2 and doesn’t give us a rehash of the same villians as before.
How is it needlessly complex. These Ideas are so simple and easy to grasp. The only people I see complaining it’s too complex are those who want the original six toa. But that in it’s self is complex too Why can’t Gali Control Ice if it’s water? Why can’t Onua move a Stone if Stone is earth?? What is earth defined as? Sub-abilities would not only fix this but they’d make sense and they’re simple enough that a kid could grasp on to these concepts with very little need for exposition.
Now I’m interested, what exactly do you consider the core aspects of bionicle?
If we could all come to at least some sort of consensus on that we might be able to move forward from there.
Uhuh…?
Oh so you mean like G2 which had a completely different story than G1 and sucked completely.
I like my idea of combined elemental Toa Mata. Anyone?
So one idea that was on the youtube channel that is really great is starting with the four elements:
Toa Lewa: Spirit of the wind
Toa Tahu: Spirit of the fire
Toa Gali: Spirit of the sea
Toa Onua: Spirit of the earth (the nutrient farmer)
I really like Var’s concept art for these. So I would keep their personalities similar to what was done in G1, understanding the absence of Kopaka feels odd.What I imagine is that after they would use the mask of time to unfreeze the village then defeat the Rahi, in year one, then in year two would quest for some Macguffin and they’d have to go to an uninhabitable part of the island - A desert that is brutally hot by day, freezing cold by night. There they meet Toa Kopaka: Spirit of the winter, and Toa Pohatu: Spirit of the desert.
So another idea concerns the element of wind: As for the village of wind, I imagine a barren cliff face with mosses and grasses, with the village being built onto the cliff face. It would match the white/pale green colour scheme for Lewa.
So I haven’t been on this topic for awhile, so this could be really late, but what about they remove stone, and make Pohatu earth. I mean Onua is basically just Gali as a dude, so why not deal with the Character and elemental overlap at the same time.
THE ELEMENTS ARE NOT LITERALLY THE SUBSTANCES
This is, what? The fourth time I’ve said this?
Yeah, earth and stone power wise are pretty similar, I don’t mind them being combined.
You gave earth fire powers, and gave water ice powers, how is that more sensible and simple than leaving them separate? And like I said, this drastically changes the lore beyond recognition for no good reason.
G2 was a disappointment for the same reason as fallout 4, an ocean of content with the depth of a puddle.
G2 didn’t suffer because the Story was different. G2 suffered because it’s story wasn’t barely developed! The villains Never GOT anything. We had no clue who the Skull Villains really were till AFTER the winter wave of 2016 and by then we were too busy wondering about Umarak was. The Protectors were just…there until the books came out. And there was virtually no world building whatsoever.
the Toa.
Tribal Villagers of some sort divided by their respective elemental faction w/ a village elder
Masks
Makuta
Wild biomechanical animals/Rahi
And you want to change half of those things?