Brickonicle G3 Elements Poll [Worldbuilding] [Pitch]

The TTV Channel Brickonicle
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I meant the norm in popular culture in general. You know, Fire, water, blah blah…
While air (as a green color), stone, and ice are not necessarily part of this norm, we’ve seen them work before -Ninjago, Chima (with ice at least), to name a couple.

We’ve also scene elements/ color schemes that weren’t so popular:
Biggest one that comes to mind And while it was popular (I enjoyed it myself), it certainly didn’t reach the success of Bionicle Gen 1 was knights Kingdom’s Purple and yellow knight, Danju.
While having purple more than yellow, the theme still had the basic 3 year run. A major problem of this was that Bionicle was so popular, but we’ve scene this occur with Ninjago and Chima, as well as, to an extent, Ninjago and BIonicle G2
I am saying that one character’s color cheme was the cause of that? No.
I am providing a real example of what @ReeseEH stated; that certain colors are unnatural - The other knights had more colors that showed up in daily life.
You, yourself said purple was a royal color, King Mathias wore purple, but why should Danju?

My point is, that I feel it’s better to introduce kids with something they’re familiar to, and then branch other to extraordinary features I know I said nothing about this above, but who cares?!?
It’s kind of the reason every big story includes humans or human-like beings; they do it to draw kids and adults into the franchise.
I don’t believe Bionicle should include humans; it would be contradictory to its name.
So why alienate kids more with a would be jarring color scheme, next to familiar natural colors? If it would be done, just make the character secondary.I myself built an LDD contraction MOC with that color scheme, and it definitely sticks out from the rest!

You state this:

…yet forgot that Air was changed to jungle (if you meant colors, I understand).

The problem with Gen2 wasn’t the elements; it was the story and the character development, and eveythingelsepeoplehavestatedforoverayearnow.

Brickonicle could work with the main elements again. Just put a new spin on the story and the promotions, (and since character design is already taken care of (as minifigures of course)), and it could work just as well.

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Sci-fi stories off of theories that we do not have the technology to disprove. Or they just make up some element such as “unobtainium” to explain everything like in a fantasy story.

And unless you write rules to explain why things fall down, and why water freezes, we must assume that the laws of physics exist.

Protodermis explains everything because that’s the premise, so shut up. Also, with the exception of the thing that we accept because it’s the premise, physics works as normal.

You seem to have missed my point. You can change the geology of the world as much as you want. It’s a different planet, it makes sense that the geological makeup would be different. What you can’t change are the properties of iron itself. Naturally occurring iron is riddled with impurities because of the way it is formed. Those impurities make it weak and brittle, you can’t change that. Surface iron will oxidize and rust, just like on mars, you can’t change that. That’s how iron works. No one’s gonna argue if you make iron more common, but if you say pure metallic iron occures naturally people are gonna freak. A desert made of iron sand would become oxidized, and no more useful than a desert of regular sand. In your quest to justify iron as a natural element you have redefined it as a weaker more narrow version of stone.

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You’ve been arguing so long, you’ve forgotten your own argument?

You had two arguments originally, that the world need not be the same and that physics need not apply. The first only puts more iron in the world, and the second keeps it from oxidizing.

~W12~

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You need physics. Without it nothing makes sense.

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I agree.
This topic is seriously getting out of hand.

The TTV do end up getting the final decision, so will everyone’s arguments even matter? Not really.

It almost feels like we’re discussing the end of the world here (or TTV Civil War (cont.)), rather than the third iteration of a toyline that already died twice.

That said, I’ll defend my opinions on this matter against anyone who disagrees, as I think most people in this topic will do.

This whole situation, I think, is the reason why Lego themes are developed, in advance, so early

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It’s a topic about BIONICLE. Of course it’s out of hand.

@Matanui606 @SirKeksalot don’t forget that there is one huge source or useful iron that neither of you are mentioning: everyone. The beings in BIONICLE are bio-mechanicle, after all.

~W12~

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Check your facts they’re made of protodermis.

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Protodermis emulating metal. Which Toa of Iron should therefore be able to control.

~W12~

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Protodermis is an organic material when it comes to the residents of the universe, check BS01.

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It’s both, actually. They have organics mixed with mechanical parts, both of which are made of Protodermis.

~W12~

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Still only partially. And if anything that’s an argument for why iron shouldn’t be one of the main elements. It’s way too overpowered:
“Hi I’m Tahu and I can burn things.”
“Hi I’m Gali and I can make waves.”
“Hi I’m Pohatu and I can tear your body apart with my mind because we are all partially made of metal.”

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I love your ideas and the thought behind them is pretty clever. But honestly, I’m wondering if these Toa shouldn’t just be new characters by this point.

I understand the connection people have with the old gang, but we’ve seen them so often that I’m beginning to miss having new teams every once in awhile. I personally think that if G3 is to be a revolutionary new start for BIONICLE, then a new team should follow. They can totally keep the same basic character traits of the originals - temperamental and brash fire, calm and collected water - but switch it up a bit and add in new and unique qualities. Give us and the new gen of fans some different characters to form bonds with and enjoy.

We could always keep the Mata/Nuva around as local legends or Turaga or past/future Toa. But I’d prefer seeing a fresh new cast for a change.

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I saw this always up, got what if we merge Air and Lightning and have the Toa of the Skies?

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Manipulation doesn’t always mean the same thing, though, especially in the elemental sense; possessing telekinesis doesn’t suddenly make you a Toa of Chairs, for example, because you still can’t absorb them or manifest one out of thin air. Granted, you could use it in order to assist in one’s construction, but that’s besides the point.
The issue there isn’t so much control as it is timing. Sure, you could potentially force someone into manipulating their own element, but expecting said fireball to completely dissipate in the fraction of a second it would take to land is still a bit of a stretch, especially if they’re actively resisting the application of your own power. And resist they could, especially if they’re consciously aware its usage, as the mind you’re trying to manipulate is still theirs. Vakama, Lesovik, and Sahmad are all prime examples of this.
There’s always the chance of someone getting wrecked in the elemental game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, but that’s simply inevitable. Point is, without telekinesis, Psionics has nothing to physically control, which puts them at an even greater disadvantage.
@JonBlueFire: Technically, you’re both correct; Toa can only absorb elemental energy, but are effectively capable of transmuting a substance back into said energy as well, thus giving off the appearance of simply absorbing it.
@Invader: The Avatar system is becoming more and more appealing by the second, to be perfectly honest…
@SSJSquidward and @Sealman133: Po-Matoran in general are naturally stronger than Matoran of any other type, with Onu-Matoran coming in at a close second. This includes the base strength (before applying mask powers) of all Toa and Turaga as well.
@Matanui606: Protodermis is actually a magical plot catch-all material that can virtually emulate anything. It literally formed everything on the island of Mata Nui that wasn’t originally part of the GSR’s head, and also acted as the primary water source of the MU. As far as actual beings are concerned, it only exists in an organic state for things like brains and joints; the rest of their bodies are composed of its metalic form, hence the term “biomechanical.”
And yeah, Iron’s always had the potential to rip people apart, as has Magnetism. If I recall correctly, that’s pretty much the exact reason why the Brotherhood of Makuta was killing them all off in the first place.

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I really like this idea. I’ve never thought of the changes for Lewa and Pohatu like that but they could work quite well. However this doesn’t just apply to character but also region so would Po-Koro now be the Jungle region? And what would the region if lightning look like? And does this mean there’d be no desert region?

I agree mostly with your point as I think the changes made to the original Toa Mata could work but it would be very risky and in the end it may just be easier to have a new cast rather than risk messing up the old one.

Edited for Double Post - Slime

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True, however for that sort of ionisation to occur, conditions for a Bose-Einstein condensate would be easier to reach.

On another note, can we just reflect for a moment on how much physical damage a fully-ionised plasma blast would cause? I mean, imagine Tahu going around and unleashing this, accidentally vaporising Jala (and everyone else in the generaql vicinity) in the process :stuck_out_tongue:[quote=“Political_Slime, post:149, topic:33898”]
Lewa a yellow Toa of Lightning
[/quote]

You had me until this point. If we can define Fire and Ice as elements of themselves, then Air is an easy one. Of course, once we add actual physics to the mix, everything becomes too overpowered.

EXACTLY! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!![quote=“Matanui606, post:163, topic:33898”]
That’s how iron works.
[/quote]

This is exactly correct. If we are going to change the properties of Iron, then JUST MAKE A NEW ELEMENT. For example, let’s say we want something which is less brittle than Iron, but can be found naturally an in semi-pure deposits. Either A: Igthor - an element with a more flexible structure, which forms during the intense pressure created during earthquakes, re-arranging the material into what is needed. OR B: Make Steel exist through a natural process. If we have a larger amount of heat generated, for example.

Can we please step back for a moment and consider: All these beings have organic components. Now, which of the main elements is found in organic components? WATER. In fact, a LOT of water. (also air in lungs, but back to the point).

Scene: Bohrok are ravaging the countryside, and charging down the beach toward Ga-Koro. Gali plants her feet, and motions toward the creatures. The Bohrok explode into clouds of red mist, with their solid protodermis plates clattering to the ground, as Gali vaporises all the water in their bodies.

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So the Toa can get away with defying the laws of matter conservation because…why? Because you can’t spontaneously MAKE matter or energy; it has to come from somewhere. Yet, there they are, creating matter and energy.

I never said it had to be explained in detail, I’m just saying it doesn’t magically make everything scientifically justifiable. And protodermis is not key to Bionicle’s premise. That lies in the fact that Toa can be a thing, the Matoran villages are a thing, and Makooti the Bionic Man wants to cause a ruckus. Like magic or the existence of protodermis, we’re just meant to accept this; and we do. The laws of physics are already either broken or pushed aside entirely; more naturally-occuring, pure Iron isn’t going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

So a magical, unexplained substance with bizarre origins which aren’t fully addressed that lets androids break the laws of physics for no apparent reason is fine, but letting more pure metal–not all types of which will rust, mind you; thus entirely solving the problem of oxidization–exist on a planet is going to break everyone’s immersion.

That’s what led me to come up with Iron as a replacement for Stone to begin with. A red desert is a really cool and interesting setting.

How exactly have I made it like Stone? The whole point is that it’s different from Stone.

Then we rewrite the rules of G3 anatomy. Their exteriors are formed from protodermis, a substance whose existence is ascribed to Mata Nui’s creation for the sole purpose of his “children.” It has the properties of metals, but does not occur in nature and, thus, cannot be controlled by a Toa of Iron.

Also, the Matoran must have air or water in the bodies in some capacity; air at the very least, since they breathe. “Hi, I’m Lewa and I can make your lungs explode with my mind.”

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Possibly unrelated, but over in the RPG Scene, we pretty much just chalk this up to “Being X’s innate Life Energy prevents themselves (and, to some extent, their possessions) from being directly manipulated by others aside from Being X,” and call it a day.
Perhaps something similar could be implemented instead, as it would also extend to characters such as Glatorian in the event that a more organic species were to eventually show up.

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Ah, I see. In that case, my case is made even stronger due to the number of yellow characters in pop culture.

…does Jay not count as part of Ninjago now? Or is he currently not the Ninja of Lightning.

And I absolutely agree. Purple is definitely an uncommon color in action themes like this, and when it is used, it’s usually for female characters. While Danju’s color scheme was certainly pleasing, it didn’t really correspond well to his “element” of wolves. The other three knights’ colors lent themselves to their animals better, and were more recognizable for kids.

Now this is where you lose me. While it’s true that purple is an uncommon color, the same cannot be said for yellow.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spongebob/images/a/a4/Spongebob_SquarePants.jpg
http://www.drodd.com/images13/wolverine15.jpg

http://transformers.hasbro.com/images/bot-carousel/bumblebee.png
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAkUAAAAJDAxZDBmNjk1LWY3OTYtNDFlMC04NTQzLTUyOWQyMzc0NGEwMg.png

Note that the last two characters are specifically associated with lightning and electricity. While it is not used as often as red, blue, and green, calling it alienating is a bit of a stretch.

I apologize if my post made it sound like I believed G2’s only problems were its elements. I recognize that G2 has a plethora of issues. My point was that we have no evidence that keeping the same colors/elements (partially barring Lewa) particularly helped G2 succeed.

I would be totally fine with this except for one factor: nostalgia. Let’s assume that G3 comes out around 2025. If you were around 8 in 2001, you’d be 32 by that point. Let’s say you have a kid, and want to buy him some Legos. You see the Bionicle logo in the Lego isle, and think “Oh yeah I remember when I had those as a kid! Tahu, he’s the red one!” If you walk over to the Bionicles, and see that Tahu isn’t the red one, don’t you think you’d be slightly disappointed?

Interesting concept, but I feel like it’s a bit too undefined for kids. All the other main elements have clearly defined powers: fire, water, ice, etc. With sky, it’s not so much an “element” as it is a place.

It doesn’t necessarily mean there would be no desert. My view for a electric-themed region would be an open field, scattered with dead trees, where thunderstorms constantly strike. This idea is largely based off of Thunder Meadow from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, as they also had to tackle the problem of a lightning-based region.

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/b/b1/Thunder_Meadow.png/250px-Thunder_Meadow.png

You could also go the Ninjago route of having mystical floating ruins:

I’ll concede that a lightning-based region is not as natural as the others. However, it is doable.

I was approaching this from a color standpoint, as physical color scheme supersedes any imaginary elements given to a character.

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Yellow characters yes, but when have you ever seen a Yellow and Pink character?

When I stated Ninjago, I was hoping that both Zane and Jay, with elements different to the norm, would be thought of.

You suggested a combination of two colors - yellow and pink
I was doing the same - yellow and purple

Anyways, let’s analyze these examples.
Spongebob- He’s supposed to replicate an actual sponge, and creatures of the sea in general have exciting color schemes as they are hardly visible with such little light. Spongebob has an outfit whose colors work; the yellow and brown mesh nicely, with blue eyes to draw attention (same could be said for the red tie). The whole outfit is topped off with the neutral colors of black and white.
Wolverine- First I’m just going to start out by stating that this version of Wolverine was rarely, if ever, the version in Marvel’s Cinematic Universe, the main selling point to bring new consumers into the franchise. However this Wolverine is still wildly recognizable. But, unlike yellow and pink, Blue and Yellow go together as they are primary colors. A primary color with a shade of another primary, I feel, doesn’t work all that well for toys.
Yellow Ranger First of all, the Pink and Yellow Rangers are separate characters, showing that the colors don’t really mesh. Secondly, all the yellow rangers have white, black, or some other mutual color in their color scheme, not a shade of red.
Bumblebee- He’s colored the way an actual bee is -yellow and black. No weird color combos here.
Pikachu- You’ll notice right off the back that this character uses red and yellow (with body features as well) to represent lightning; two primary colors. It’s not even that dark of a red, more of a red-orange, a more yellowish color.

My point is that all these examples have color schemes that work; the yellow is either complemented, or not effected at all. And while pink is a shade of red (and red is used to a small amount), both are bright colors, unlike most of the examples used here which use the bright color of yellow to contrast with a dark color.

We have no evidence that the same colors hurt G2 either. If anything, I feel that making Pohatu burt orange, rather than brown, adding yellow/orange to Gali, and adding blue to Kopaka helped the line sell. You yourself liked the color schemes of Tahu, Kopaka, and Gali.
These color schemes were done right (at least for the most part I’m looking at you Tahu Uniter)

I’m not saying changing colors is bad. I’m saying wierd color combos that don’t go together on the color wheel would, most likely, look even weirder in real life on a toy.
(I mean could you ever see Lego making some sort of Yellow and Pink jet-thing?!)