Could Norik & Iruini have informed the Toa Mangai of Teridax' betrayal?

Earlier I was pondering with the idea of whether or not Norik and Iruini could have informed and perhaps even saved the Toa Mangai. The main questions is if this would have been possible from a timeline perspective as I don’t know at what point in time they raided the prison that held their now mutated comrades (Bomonga, Pouks, Gaaki and Kualus) compared to the events in Metru Nui.

Essentially I was wondering: what if Iruini (instead of irrationaly rushing the prison) would have used his Kualsi to search for back-up / spread the news of Teridax’ betrayal. Could he have reached the Toa Mangai or were they already mostly dead at that point?

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Good question - from the timeline perspective, they had 50 years to do something about it, but didn’t. I guess it is their fault then :man_facepalming:

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Wow that would be quite disturbing. Sith lord Norik & Iruini confirmed :joy:

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Worth noting, they knew that the Makuta were evil, not necessarily their plans. They probably didn’t know that Teri planned to usurp Dume.

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True that. Perhaps that is why Teridax chose to hide his face for so long, instead prefering to hire Dark Hunters to get the Toa Mangai out of his way.

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To address the second half of that question, the Toa Mangai were still well alive at this point. The events of the Hagah Rebellion occurred 300 years before the events of Legends of Metru Nui, while the deaths of the Mangai occurred roughly a year and a half before the movie’s events.

As for the first half of that question, technically, yes, Iruini could’ve spent X amount of time searching for more Toa to recruit, but:

  1. He probably would’ve had a hard time convincing other Toa to believe him, since the world at large still believed the Brotherhood to be on the side of good. It wasn’t until Legends of Metru Nui that everyone else in the universe learned of their betrayal.
  2. Even if he found others, he couldn’t use his mask to transport them to the prison, which would’ve taken more time, which leads me to my third point.
  3. Norik and Iruini didn’t know what was happening to the other 4 Hagah. For all they knew, their friends could be executed any second, so time was of the essence. If Iruini had done that, it would’ve taken time they didn’t have.

And to add to Racie’s point, all the Hagah knew (per their origin comic and other varied sources) was that the Brotherhood was amassing an army of Dark Hunters, Visorak, and Exo-Toa, they had stolen the Mask of Light, and they were enslaving Matoran. We don’t have any evidence that they knew of Teridax’s plans for Metru Nui. As for why they didn’t warn more people about the Brotherhood after they became Rahaga, I don’t think it’s been explicitly stated, but it’s reasonable to presume that they didn’t think anyone would listen to Rahkshi-headed freaks.

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Could’a should’a would’a

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Nice elaboration! Even though I still believe they may have been able to do something with the Avohkii as proof of their tale, I have to admit it is a long shot considering all the points you mentioned.

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“Look! Here’s the Avohkii that the Makuta stole! This proves they’re evil!”
“So you’re saying that the Makuta stole it… Because you have it.”
“Yes! Exactly.”
“And you, the little Rahkshi dwarves who have this mask, didn’t steal it from Artakha.”
“Of course.”

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Well that comment wasn’t very helpfull to me :frowning: Regardless I meant like as a Toa.

Sorry, I was just making a joke, not trying to answer anything.

Ah, I see. I still don’t think that the Hagah could use the Avohkii as proof that the Makuta are evil, though.

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Yes you are probably right. All good man!

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Even though your question has probably been answered it’s probably worth mentioning that IMO Lhikan would’ve believed them since he was the last member of a Toa team that didn’t trust the Brotherhood of Makuta and created the Makoki Stone.

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That in and of itself sounds super interesting, and makes me wonder if that played into him being the member of the team to survive the longest out of all of them;- it also makes me wonder if his teammates accused him of being paranoid, which, if it was shown in-story, could’ve possibly been an interesting precursor to how the Metru were, with Vakama’s team going at him so much of the time (although obviously not as intense as that); another precursor to Vakama could’ve been seeing Lhikan having to deal with all his teammates getting taken out under his watch (I personally think that while it would be no walk in the park for him, he’d handle it way better than Lesovikk did, looking for solutions to the problem (e.g. investigating the matter and making toa stones) instead of getting washed-up).

Also along the lines of Lhikan possibly being seen as paranoid to some degree by at least some of the other Mangai (who I’m certain would’ve still seen him as a leader they held in great respect, seeing as he had done a good job at leading them for years upon years), it could’ve been interesting to see it resulting in an intervention scene where they think it’s just a natural result of him having been betrayed by both Nidhiki, whom he didn’t know too well, and Tuyet whom he (at least thought he) knew much better.

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That Lhikan was a (rookie) member of the team that guarded the stone does not necessarily mean he had any idea of its true nature. Though, in the movie he does confront Makuta as if he is not surprised by Dume’s true identity or motive.

For what it’s worth:

Official Greg Discussion | Page 117
3) Did Lhikan and/or his team of Toa ever come in contact with the Toa Hagah/Rahaga? Roodaka and/or Sidorak?
3) No and no

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There is evidence in-story that the Toa Mangai might have seen Lhikan as somewhat paranoid. In Birth of a Dark Hunter, we get this quote:
“Beneath his Kanohi Mask of Stealth, Nidhiki flashed a smile. “You worry too much, brother. You always have. Remember the time the tops of all those Ko-Metru Knowledge Towers were being shattered? You were sure the Kanohi Dragon was back. Turned out to be ice bats with attitude.””

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Hmmm… now this is getting really interesting.
So maybe Lhikan’s experience with loosing his team, coupled with the reason the artifact they were guarding was built, shaped him into a guy who believes he needs to be ready for when “the grid goes down”, if you will, which actually helped him be an effective leader (as evidenced by his actions being those which ended-up saving the population of Metru Nui), but might have also made him think that a number of threats that they faced would be bigger than they turned out to be, and also (coupled with the fact that he doesn’t like to talk about his past) made at least some of his teammates think of him as paranoid, especially if he was the only one willing to insinuate that “the emperor had no clothes” before they got taken out.

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I don’t think Lhikan really knew what the Makoki Stone was for, just that it needed to be guarded. Legacy of Evil states that he “did not know the true significance of (the Makoki Stone)”.
Edit: This is further cemented a few chapters later when Hakann offers to give him the stone in exchange for the Dark Hunters being allowed to leave Metru Nui without a fight.

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I also found this on Biosector. It is about the Matoran Civil War.

“Teridax took a large number of the Matoran fighters and locked them in the Archives. He then released the various exhibits on the Matoran, killing a large number of them. The slaughter, which came to be known as the Archives Massacre, put an end to the fighting. However, it gave the Makuta a very bad reputation in Metru Nui.”

So perhaps a warning signal comming from an outside Toa (or maybe even Rahaga) about Teridax being evil would have made them more paranoid, enough to discover fake Dume.

In addition I also truly wonder how the Toa Mangai were assigned to the suicide missions. Like were they all given a mission at once with Lhikan staying behind? Or were they shipped out one by one (giving Lhikan more time to discover the truth behind the missions).

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BS01 says that all of the Toa Mangai were killed by Eliminator, Nidhiki and Krekka, presumably working together. That makes me think that they were sent out at different times, as if they were sent to different places (i.e. the different gates leading out of Metru Nui) at the same time, Eliminator couldn’t have been there to kill them all, which Greg has previously stated that he did.

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