A lot of stuff that is on the internet that is seen as “cringe” like Bronies, Furries, etc. It is use to bully more often then not and i don’t like that. Being a fan of Five nights at freddy’s and people seeing fnaf as “Cringe” very sad because often times they don’t know what that certain fandom is actually like. It’s not bad to cringe at something if you mean no harm to it but if you are using it to make fun at someone for what they like then that crosses the line. There is plenty of videos that discuss the problem with cringe better then i did here but i wanted to start a discussion about this because i feel like important to discuss this and you guys probably feel the same way too.
The problem with FNAF is how cheaply made it is, and how the gameplay is just stupidly repetitive and relies too much on RNG. It also relied on cheap jump scares. In-game lore is also just a mess. It becomes “cringe” because of the amount of young people creating their own fanfics about it and it comes across as appalling to people. Especially when it starts to become erotic.
Other fandoms that appeal to young people, like furries, MLP, etc. also fall into the trap of middle school-level children, starting to undergo puberty, use their fandom for erotic purposes, and older teenagers and adults just find it disturbing. Hence their “cringe”. Unfortunately, some of them use it to bully, but other times, the material actually is cringe-worthy because of how terrible the material is.
Remember that a lot of criticism can be constructive. Sometimes, a product being “cringy” is certainly a valid criticism, especially if it tries too hard to be appealing. Sometimes a product is just executed terribly. Criticism is meant to build, not tear down.
I think criticism in its raw form is purely for tearing down, you’re just pointing out the flaws in something.
But constructive criticism is usually “X is good and y could use some work”
Anyways, I agree that too many people refer to things as “cringe” and “cringey” purely because they are unsatisfied with the quality or it simply just doesn’t appeal to them. There are somethings out there that are legitimately “cringey” but it’s not wholly necessary to point it out on a degrading level.
Exactly. Pointing out a flaw is supposed to be constructive. If you’re doing it to bully someone, that’s not criticism, that’s harassment. Criticism is supposed to be negative. The concept of “constructive criticism” misses the point. If you’re saying “X is good”, that’s not criticism, that’s applaud. Saying “y could use some work” is negative, but you’re not addressing the point. You’re being too passive with the statement, so the point does not come across.
I know in college I tried to be passive in criticism, and my professors would dock me down points. Because being passive is not a way to construct someone. It allows them to ignore everything you said and just keep making mistakes.
Honestly, some people would be surprised how easy we have it in the United States when it comes to criticism. I remember visiting Europe and it was constant criticism. I had a teacher who was from Asia who would only point out the flaws in my work. You know why they do that? To discipline you, and make you better. Meanwhile in the USA so many people are worried about offending someone who, frankly, probably did make some terrible artwork.
Because discipline is healthy. It makes you become more refined in your work. As the saying goes, “the master craftsman does not blame his tools”. To get better, you need to improve yourself, which often means failing or tasting humility. It makes you less egotistical.
There is some good points there Chronicler but i do disagree with the point about “Criticism is supposed to be negative.” You can still make criticism even if it is a bit more positive or passive. About you talking about the fnaf community. It is true that there is lots of kids there are in the fnaf community but not all of them are cringy even if they were who cares as long there are not hurting anybody just let them do what they want. It doesn’t seem but i could be wrong your actually apart of the fnaf community because the fnaf fandom is mainly about the lore not the games as actual games. The major of people in the fnaf fandom haven’t even played the games.
Merriam Webster’s dictionary would agree with me.
The wording here is largely in a negative connotation. Clicking through the links, the dictionary here explains the root word is “crisis” which is also a negative term in the English language. However, just because it is negative doesn’t mean it is vile or rude.
Alright, but I already argued against that. It doesn’t fall under the concept of being critical to be passive. Criticism is about analysis. Do you have an argument against mine besides just re-stating what I disagreed with?
I am not part of the community, no. However, I am aware the “lore” of the game appeals to people. And even then, it’s an incoherent mess that the author keeps making up on the spot. There are many contradictions.
Then how do they call themselves fans? They lack the experience of the actual product and yet applaud it? That’s thriving in ignorance for the sake of being part of a community. How can we trust their word on lore if they did not even experience the game for themselves?
On the contrary. They hurt themselves by occasionally engaging in erotic behavior. Especially if many of them are young. There is a lot of danger in online fandoms, especially with adult pedophiles grooming children by adding their own erotic ideas into their heads. It creates a very unhealthy view on sex: of it being non-consequential, which in turn leaves to more misery in their adult life.
Hence why many adults find it to be cringe. That, and frankly how perverse some it becomes.
I guess will agree to disagree. I’m little uncomfortable about the suggestive stuff you mentioned because I’m a bit sensitive to that kind of stuff. I’m going to mention that I got in to fnaf in middle school and I’m a autistic 16 year girl that got held back and next year I will be in high school. I’m not trying to defend myself but I thought it was important to tell you because of you said before about middle school kids. I hope we’re gucci.
It’s completely fine. I’m autistic myself! I get the fear about that stuff, and admittedly it’s a very sensitive subject. Perhaps I should have been more careful.
With all due respect, I think the way this post is worded is a bit confusing. Assuming I understand correctly what you are getting at here it’s that stuff that is viewed as being cringe by a lot of people should still be given respect and not be bullied for what they like.
I agree that any form of bullying is not ok, but someone can still dislike something, and using the term “cringe” isn’t necessarily a bad thing to do. Some people might not agree that certain things are cringe but either way it’s not bullying to say so. Criticism /=\ Hate.
From my experience, and perspective, there’s merits and flaws to everything. Things are always more complex than they seem on the surface.
There are things I like about FnaF, if I must use that as an example. Like @Chronicler said, a lot of them, as games, are rather formulaic. Once you figure out the systems, it depletes the games of challenge without resorting to pure randomness, which can be frustrating. The jump-scare thing I only half agree with. The series more times than not does a good job of being genuinely unsettling; the jump-scares are moreso a failure state in terms of game mechanics than any real attempt at scaring the player.
The series lore, while messy and often incoherent, is still appealing. There’s a lot of mystery that keeps people guessing, wanting to know more. I’d aruge the extreme ambiguity is what sort of allows people to fill in their own details, make things even more frightening. Taken as individual games too, each entry in the series has an intruiging premise and a deeper mystery.
Despite those flaws, the series has garnered mass popular appeal, so it must be good at something. You don’t get to that level of fame by being trash material.
That being said, I don’t find the flaws “cringey.” That isn’t to say that there aren’t cringe-worthy things out there, though. Either way, it is true people will use their positions on certain things to bully other people; it exists everywhere. It’s a sad, but true reality, but one that everyone has a part in. So long as you yourself strive to ensure positivity, then it can help inspire others to do the same.
My two cents on the criticism debacle: @Chronicler is right. By definition, there is no way to criticize without pointing out flaws. However, there are distinct differences between being critical and being mean or abusive. Pointing out the flaws in something and using those as a platform to tear someone down as a person isn’t helpful, it’s just being mean. Pointing out objective flaws in someone’s work for the purpose of helping them remove those flaws and become better is the job of criticism. There are right and wrong ways to go about it.
For example, if I said to @Chronicler, “I think you could improve on [insert thing here]. The way it’s done in this example isn’t as effective as it could be,” or even “This [example] is bad, here’s why,” are all examples of criticism. One is phrased a bit more passively, the other a bit more blunt.
But if I said to him “This [example] is bad, and it’s because you’re incapable of doing it and are a bad person” or something to that effect, then that’s not criticism, it’s bullying.
@Chronicler I apologize for using you as an example, you know I love ya’!
No need. I can handle it. But you are forgiven regardless.
I would disagree. It would be more interesting if the lore was more coherent and thorough, but the mess and consistent contradictions make it so I quickly lost all interest in what the author was trying to say.
For example, Tolkien’s legendarium has mysteries, but to compliment it are thorough explanations of the world and events around it. FNAF has an issue where the author kind of expects the players to figure out the lore itself. Which isn’t always bad. However, there just isn’t a lot to build up on, and it seems whenever I see a theory built up, the next game knocks it down.
What is the point of trying to solve an incoherent mystery when the author keeps knocking it down? It comes across as being a try hard, which makes me think “cringe”.
As am I. Which is why I try to fight such sensitive subjects.
As for my favorite Disneyland Ride, Pirates of the Caribbean. No contest.
I love the lore of the Haunted Mansion (would love to ride it myself next year) luckily the Pirates of the Caribbean and the Haunted Mansion are connected
kinda veering off topic a bit. That discussion would be better suited to another topic or in PMs.
As a fellow Christian Autist® I think you both have valid points. To me ‘cringe’ just seems like shorthand for ‘I don’t like this but I don’t want to bother explaining why’, and I might start challenging people with that in future.
As for the definition of criticism, I don’t think ‘constructive criticism’ is a bad term - you’re specifying that you’re criticizing for a constructive reason, since criticism has a negative connotation in general, regardless of the textbook definition. “Critique” is another nicer sounding word I use for the same purpose.
And as for the faux pas of the middle school comments - Cronk was talking about middle schoolers as the target audience, not the entirety of the audience in general. LEGO isn’t targeted to me, a grown adult, but that doesn’t stop me from enjoying it.
I’d like to counter this here, as a Fnaf ‘fan’ myself. I’ve never played a single game, and likely won’t ever do so – not due to a lack of interest, but because I’m not a big gamer (with exceptions, like Minecraft and arguably DnD)
What I have done is watched a play-through of the games (every episode Markiplier* has done on it, and I will continue to follow if he makes more), I’ve read the book trilogy (which isn’t canon to the game series, but it is still Fnaf) I’ve watched a handful of theory videos on Fnaf. Point being, one can certainly be a fan of something without engaging in the main medium.
I also agree with the idea that things can be viewed as ‘cringe’ simply due to being associated with a ‘cringe’ franchise. Consider this: I consider myself a fairly decent Moccist. Nowhere near the greats, certainly, but not a newb either. I would expect, if I were to make a moc of a Fnaf character, some people would ‘criticize’ it for being Fnaf. Never mind the quality of the Moc itself, it’s bad because it’s Fnaf. The same applies to Stories, art, comics, whatever else people make.
*I’d also like to add that this isn’t me being a fan of Markiplier. That is arguably true, but I also am not big on LP’s, and will only watch them if the game interests me, as Fnart does.
Thank you for your wisdom. I give you thy sword for your gratitude. I don’t know why i thought it would be funny to say that hahaha.
well, since you said ‘thy’, I can only assume you took away my sword because I broke something, or stole it but had a change of heart and gave it back.
Sure lets go with that.
Psht, genuine enjoyment and appreciation of a thing? That’s cringe bro, post-ironic deep-fried detachment is the only way to go my dude
[END OF SARCASM TAG]
I think cringe culture is mostly a result of the growing pains of the internet as a whole. The current era of a small number of websites hosting 90% of all internet use is barely a decade old at best, and so the social norms around behaviour that isn’t okay have yet to develop properly. Going into isolated communities for material to essentially bully a bunch of kids doesn’t sound good when I phrase it that way, but it’s a popular-ish theme for various youtubers making cringe compilations right now.
It’ll probably go away eventually, but hopefully the backlash isn’t so strong as to kill off constructive criticism. The hugbox effect is a content creator trap.
Your probably right but if we want to get to that point sooner we have to educate the people of today and the future.
laughs in debate group
For me something being cringe tends to go towards the fanbase, or negative changes the fanbase influenced. Let’s use the example of Fortnite. Early on, it was a solid game with goofy graphics, but otherwise not terribly goofy themes or anything. Then they realized their fanbase was mostly nine year old boys doing the emote dances and asking for their parents money to buy the skins. Once Epic realized this, they capitalized on it, putting llamas everywhere and not just as those piñatas that appear in the game, multiplying the obnoxiousness of the dances, doing cheesy crossovers with marvel, DC, and Star Wars, and making new skins goofier and goofier. It’s not only the fanbase that’s cringe about it, but also what the fanbase influenced the developers into doing. I still play the game sometimes (usually only because it’s cross platform) but I get annoyed at how much a T rated shooter game is targeted for little kids.