I’d rather give Pohatu the “Kinesis” element. Because then he could keep his rock-kicking function.
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Do you take the last part from Black Panther? As you describe it, it look like Gambit (X-men). I’m not convinced with that as an element since in theory negate earth/stone, water and air in their attack. I also don’t see how you grafically would represent it.
Just change the Le-Koro to be Flora, the village will be the same. The only difference would be that Lewa would swing through the jungle instead of flying. The thing is that Flora should be green. I know that plants have different colors, but when you thing in plants, you think green.
Pohatu could fly and have the same fight style than G1 Lewa.
I have no idea what that’s about. Mechanical energy is all around us at all times.
Not really. Individual rocks can be stopped, but the bigger an object is, the more energy it has, making it harder to stop–and that energy has to go somewhere, so Pohatu (again, whoever it is) has to deal with the shockwave if he doesn’t take the energy into his own body.
As for fluids, it takes a lot of concentration to manipulate the energy of so many molecules, as the force isn’t carried out through a singular body like with a solid object; this makes it impossible for him to really stop a wave. Oh, and may the Red Star forbid he try and stop photons or anything.
Things move, and you see them move. Things stop, and you see them stop. If Pohatu is storing this energy in this body, he’ll be visibly straining to keep it in, and then he’ll hit something or release a shockwave.
I’m sorry, but that is far too much change. Lewa blows things around, he doesn’t grab you with solid matter and beat you over the head with it. Look at how Aang fights and tell me you can keep his fighting style the same with vines.
Again, that’s just way too much change. A character’s powers and fighting style are a huge component of their identity because they define how they approach a certain type of problem. I’m not trying to shoot you down, but I’m trying to stay within the parameters of what we already expect from and like in these characters as much as I can.
No problem mate. We are all here to share and discuss ideas. I still think Kinesis is not a good element, and Flora should be green (which make a problem with Lewa).
How abou Iron? Onua or Potato could be iron.
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I actually proposed Iron as a replacement for one element back when TTV started working on Brickonicle…to nearly unanimous disagreement. Metal is malleable, it’s sharp, it’s better for grabbing onto things, and on top of all that, it’s what the characters’ weapons and masks are made of, which will impact how it gets used. I can see why I was met with such backlash then, and I don’t expect many people to be on board with it now.
If I give Iron to Pohatu, that would leave him relying largely on his boomerang to fight and using his element almost like a middle-ground between Flora and Ice, with the stabby-stabbyness of the latter and the flexibility of the former. To realize the true potential of this element, I’d be better off giving it to a new character entirely.
Onua faces a similar problem, but might conceivably work with it better. For such a flexible element, the Toa of Iron ought to be equally flexible and agile; Onua, however, fights like “the big guy” of the team, being slow and strong and thoughtful rather than sharp as a knife and flexible like Elastigirl. He also had to make his element out of nothing less often than he would as a Toa of Iron, since Earth is nearly omnipresent. That said, Onu-Koro’s mining economy fits when its people are attuned to the metallic ores they dig up. So, in Onua’s case, there are pros and cons, but it’s easier to keep his fighting style the same when he summons massive trees rather than metallic tendrils.
I should point out that if he becomes a Toa of Earth, as in option 1, he still kicks rocks. That’s not going away no matter what.
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How is Ash and Fire all that different? What is elemental Ash?
And to me, it makes sense for Pohatu to be Stone/Earth and for Onua to become a Toa of Iron, just looking at your list. I mean they live in mines and tinker with machines. How is that not super akin to Iron?
I belive you think in the control of the elements like Avatar, where they have great control and presition. But in BIONICLE are more the type of throwing stuff, not making very complicate things.
In that regard, I thing Iron is the best, just don’t give them a Magneto ability to manipulate it. In that case Onua is the most suitable, since he would carve for minerals, and would use a big metal armor, been a big guy rather than agile (iron is really heavy). About the other characters armor and mask, they are made from Protodermis, so he couldn’t control it.
The only problem I see with Iron, is that is not a natural resource per se, so maybe he could also control crystal mineral or something.
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How is Iron not a natural resource? Or do you mean its relative abundance. Elements in Bionicle have always functioned strange to me. It seems sometimes they can just be materialized and some can not be
I mean that what we understand for iron (that in fact is steel rather than iron), is a refined element. In nature you don’t find steel, and iron is in low concentrations scattered in rocks. That way I say add iron crystals to the enviroment.
In Into the Nest comic, Gali make a flood from the moisture in the air, so she needed the presence of water to attack. When Teridax teleported in Reign of Shadows everyone to space, Lewa create air bubbles around everyone (except Miserix) to allow them to breath, so he didn’t need the presence of air to create it. I think, they store some of their element with them to make an small move, but for major attacks, they need to canalice the element from the enviroment.
Except fire, fire do wathever he want (ice too, but without water he could only cold, not create ice estructure)
I don’t think its specifically steel, more so that they are able to manipulate the iron within steel. Its definitely a gray zone though. But I think comparing the natural resources of the Bionicle world to ours will fall short. I mean simply look at the GSR and the prototype robot, the vast amounts of metals (even through its not iron/steel its still a vast quantity of metal) and you’ll see its already far more than what is is currently on Earth. Spherus Magna is 27x the size of the Earth. I have no doubts that metal abundance is not a real issue in this story. But the physics do not function like they should for a planet that large so this is all nuance overthinking anyways.
Ash consists of solid particles and lets you make smoke clouds and cake people in ash; it’s what left when something burns. Fire is…well, ■■■■■■■ fire.
I want a higher emphasis on elemental combat, and with that comes a refinement of what it’s like to fight with these powers. I want the Toa to learn to hone their skills and learn ever-fancier techniques as they grow as people and to have more elaborate fight scenes. Tahu starts by just slinging fireballs and hacking wildly with his sword; but by the last action scene, he’s become an expert swordsman and pyromancer.
To that end, more elaborate control over the elements has to be possible so that there’s a higher skill ceiling, to use video game terminology, for their usage. It’s not quite like Avatar, where it’s based on real-world martial arts, but it does work like a martial art wherein the element is used as an extension of the user’s body.
In G1, that is the case; but Protodermis is something very different in my universe and masks are just made from metal. I want to be clear: this is not just a G1 retelling, but a completely new story. Hence all the new lore.
I’m not sure what you mean. Native metal deposits are a thing, and the Matoran work with metal a lot, especially mask-makers. It therefore makes sense for their alchemy to include metal as an element. I should specify: here, as in G1, “Iron” encompasses all metal. Crystals would just be Earth.
According to BS01, Toa can make their element out of nothing if they have the energy for it. This obviously breaks the laws of thermodynamics, so I imagine it would be more taxing, but I don’t think there are any special rules to it.
This is the case for G1, but I would like to mention that my universe has no GSR. Okoto-Nui is just a small continent on a regular-■■■ planet, and Mata Nui is an actual creator god and not just a robot.
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I get that, but Toa of fire have been seen using magma many times. Lots of solid particles and ash particles by default. So are your Toa of fire incapable of control of magma? Its already another grayzone with earth control anyways, as magma imo is more akin to earth. And ash seems to then fall into a same predicament category as earth, as ash commonly becomes just that.
Even planets vary WILDLY in composition from each other. Its clearly not a regular-*** planet if has the presence of abundant liquid water. Its hard for an outsider to assume what proportions an artificial world has in that regard. Are you saying iron is rarer by this statement?
Toa of fire never manipulated magma in g1. Tahu rode it a lot, especially in promotional material, but you don’t need control of something to surf it. Ask any surfer.
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I don’t know how often they’ve done that, but they’ve never manipulated just straight smoke clouds to my knowledge. Magma is lumped under Fire in this universe because it’d be used for the same purposes: either burning people or for area denial. The Matoran language also reveals how they conceive fire: their word for it just translates to “thick fire.”
It is chemically molten rock, but Water and Ice are the same chemical. Those are split up here for practical reasons, as I don’t want a single element to have access to too many unique powers.
No system of classical elements can hold up under scientific scrutiny. This is a magic system; it doesn’t have to rely on physics or chemistry.
I simply meant that it has no 40 million foot tall robot sleeping on it and it just naturally exists. The world itself, aside from a few plot-relevant details like the history of the Matoran and their respective gods, isn’t exactly remarkable in that regard.
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He made it clear it wasn’t just G1 Toa influence.
Im aware of what it is chemically. So then what is its purpose? Why not dust/sand? Both seem like they could be achieved from earth/wind control. Either controlling mineral particles themselves or blowing them in a vortex. It seems like a very odd choice for an element.
I understand that, I made the same argument in favor for iron working in your world just earlier. It just seems odd that you’re trying to knock out something being redundant when ash just appears to be redundant to me. If you can explain it being unique I’m down for it. Worldbuilding wise it just seems to be pretty lesser at the moment.
So is iron rare then? Are you trying to have it that there are more common elements and specialized/rare elements? Does that mean its Earth-like or more like Aqua Magna… or whatever the planet G2 is on. Because I think even the Aqua/Magna/G2’s planet would have more metals than Earth, at least from a worldbuilding perspective its easy to assume since our main entities are metallic in nature.
Also just trying to make it clear I’m only trying to help you refine the worldbuilding as it appears a lot of it is at least not outwardly apparent.
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Since kinesis isn’t a physical thing so much as a force, I would make onua flora. That leaves open the possibility of having an epic scene in a finale where you see the Toa all manifesting their powers, a la Mnog.
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“Dust” is a super vague category that really just means “debris.” Sand falls under Stone (and, thus, Earth) for being a lot of tiny rocks. When thrown, Sand can cause a lot of direct injury, but doesn’t stick to surfaces very well, and it doesn’t always linger in the air very long. Air would only move ash clouds indirectly and wouldn’t have very precise control over those particles; and Toa of Air can’t make ash out of nothing.
A Toa of Ash could make smoke clouds on-command whether anything nearby had just burned down or not. He could make smoke clouds to blind or choke out enemies or cake them in ash to immobilize them (again, think back to Skyrim). And, beyond combat, it’s also good for farming and espionage.
Redundant to what, exactly? Because it’s not a gas like Air, it doesn’t burn like Fire, and it’s not coarse or rough and doesn’t get everywhere like sand. You can find it very easily in nature, and it’s fairly easy to comprehend what it is and how you’d fight with it; or at least it’d be easy to depict that fighting style. I’m no animator, so I sadly can’t give good details there…
So, uh, I forgot what we were arguing about here. Less-common elements and phenomena are somewhat easier to come by on this planet, but the commonality isn’t really important. Metal tools and weapons exist in this world, so the element of Iron is an everyday thing for the Matoran, even if it comprises a small portion of the world.
The Matoran themselves are not made of metal. Their circuits do not gleam. They are not perpetual, and they do not keep the country clean. Instead, they are made of…well, Protodermis. What is Protodermis in this universe with no GBs to make it? Well, that’s a mystery for another time…
Oh, don’t sweat it. Even if I don’t see eye to eye with all of you, it helps to know what your initial impressions are and how you perceive my changes. As for the worldbuilding, I kinda didn’t wanna bore you all with irrelevant details and force you to read an encyclopedia for a project you have no investment in. I wanna take my time to flesh out the world properly, whenever I get around to that.
If you feel out of the loop, here’s a quick primer on the most important parts of the universe:
- The Toa are the 3rd run in a hierarchy of gods. They represent the forces of nature and dictate daily life and commerce. Who are the 6 Toa? Well, different Matoran will tell you different things. It’s a bit like Mesopotamian religion, wherein every city-state chose a different supreme deity–Babylon, for example, favored Marduk, but its rivals did not. The Toa are culture heroes and purported ancestors of the current 12 Matoran ethnic groups, but the Toa Mata we know and love return to the world of the living for the main story…except they know nothing of their past, and they’re not quite like the legends told that they would be.
- Above the Toa are the Great Beings: Artakha, the god of life and creation; Karzahni, the god of death and tormentor of wicked souls; Akamai, the god of war; Wairuha, the god of wisdom and knowledge; and Papu and Rangi, whose functions I still have to work out. At the top is Mata Nui, who currently slumbers. Banished into the void is the Makuta, Mata Nui’s 7th son who betrayed his father and was banished by the Toa long ago.
- Matoran geopolitics draw on historical city-states, like those of Greece and Mesopotamia. The story takes place in the midst of a period of peace brought about by the incumbent Turaga, all of whom are renowned war heroes. There are regional disputes, but recently, the Turaga have made an effort to decide these over games of Koli rather than military conflicts.
- Love is canon, as are children. Some named characters are actually related: Jala, for example, is Vakama’s grandson, and Nuparu is Onepu’s nephew. (Side note: because Matoran aren’t sexually dimorphic, they have no concept of sexual orientation and have no word for “gay.”)
- Matoran don’t live for thousands of years. They last a couple centuries at most, and that takes a lot of luck.
- Matoran are very invested in their religion, and they believe that the ultimate goal of existence is to bring the return of Mata Nui so the Makuta can finally be destroyed.
- All elements are divided based on what kind of mana they have. Mana manifests in matter and energy, and it comes in different types. This is how Matoran explain the difference between elements beyond their obvious properties. Ice is not Water because it has different mana. Toa are innately linked to certain mana and can control anything with that mana as though it were part of their own bodies.
I think that’s all the big details. Anything else is just super specific stuff that’s subject to change.
Being able to see the elements is a good point, given that the original Toa are the “basic” elements that we start the story with. I can worry about introducing Kinesis later, since that’s a bit more meta in its application.
I think by now, it’s clear that Option 1 is the inferior choice. Onua will have his element replaced, of that I’m certain. Now the question remains: should he get Iron or Flora? I will sleep on this and come back tomorrow.
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Don’t think I don’t notice these.
Also, if you’ve ever been near a volcano, you know that ash absolutely gets everywhere.
As much as I want to say iron because I like the idea of onua being Toph, I would say flora, flora few reasons:
1: flora seems like an element for nature lovers, which I feel is a fitting personality for onua. Iron fits potahu’s personality more, IMO.
2: it seems more like a “natural” element, than metal. Yes, metal is a naturally occurring material, but it doesn’t really make anything naturally – people/matoran make stuff with it. Flora grows of it’s own accord. I’m not saying iron shouldn’t be an element, but I don’t think it should be used by one of the main Toa.
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But is it coarse or rough? Didn’t think so.
This is very important from a character design perspective, and I’m not going to dispute this point. However, one thing I want to bring up is that the Toa in person don’t quite act like the legends foretold. In Onua’s case, that means he’s quick to anger and known for his wrath in some stories, but in person, he’s shy, quiet, and good with kids.
Metal is hard, sharp, and corrodes, so it’s easier for it to align with his mythological self–though, given the importance of agriculture, I can just as easily say that he’s viewed as a harsh rustic deity who punishes the Matoran with a bad harvest if they sin.
Now that you mention this, it kinda looks like the elements have this divide between “basic” and “specialized.” The “Big 6” have elements for more everyday things you’d encounter more in nature, or at least perceive more easily; the rest feel more specific and aren’t huge components of the world, with the exception of Light. With the original Toa, it makes sense to give them the “normal” elements, and if I explore the idea of other Toa after them, I can take that opportunity to look at the rest.
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I also like more Flora as an unique element, more than Iron. But the more suitable for being Flora is Lewa, for how hippie he is, where he live and most importantly his color. At the begining of BIONICLE I used to think than Lewa was a Plant Toa. Having a black flora Toa would make him look like rotten and confusing, having a green Toa.
Instead of having to elements similar enough to make confusion, but with unique setting (desert and caves), you woul have distintive elements, but two confusing villages and Toa colors.
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