Failed fan projects and what you've learned from them.

Community
1

So I’m in a bit of a mood today. So today I want to talk about fan projects failing. I think we’ve all probably been there at some point whether as the creator or a supporter. As you probably know having something you want to do fail isn’t the best feeling in the world.

However it does happen and I think it might happen to me yet again the problem this time is that it is a project I’m really passionate about. Which makes it way harder, this topic isn’t a “pity myself” topic because its still up in the air if my project will fail or not. Its leaning towards failing to be honest.

Looking at my project I’m not sure what went wrong, it can be all from lack of interest to poor advertising, I just don’t know. What I do know though is that I’ve been having this project on lifesupport for the last couple of days since I made it public having only really gotten one participant. Which let’s be real I’m really grateful for but it won’t bring my idea and project over the finish line and well its heartbreaking. I’ve been working on this project quietly for almost 2 years now and I was about to enter the last phase before being able to release it to the public but at this rate it feels like a lost cause.
So I’m thinking well was I’m not open enough with this project, probably, most likely. I bet most of you haven’t even heard about it either. I’d love to share it but the boards have a no advertising rule unless your master so though luck for me. Anyway I’m conflicted and torn one part of me wants it to run to the end of November just to see what happens but at the same time it doesn’t seem like it will help. Because of this I don’t know what to do really I feel its unfair to quit on the one guy who did chose to support me so I really don’t want to have it come to that but I also don’t know how long I can watch this project on life support.

However that’s enough of my dilema and sharing my depression. Now I was going to turn this around a bit by asking you if you’ve been in a similar boat and what you’ve learned from that experience. Also do you have any tips for everyone, I know Nak&Jay have covered this topic alot already even thoughits been mostly about how they tend to fail. So why not turn this into something positive instead despite my obvious self loathing.

So lets focus on how you can improve and become better as well as how you can turn your fan project into a success!

Good evenin’ everyone
//Tar

If this topic is gone tomorrow it was probably me deleting for being to cringe

4 Likes
2

Hey, Collabs count as fan projects and those count don’t they? Ok, what I’ve learned is that people are too overconfident in their abilities. Someone might say oh! I’m going to make a bionicle move, when all they’ve done is movie making is a 10 thing in pivot. If people be more realistic on what they can do, than the fan projects might just work.

1 Like
3

Wait you were working on a fan project?

1 Like
4

now I’m really curious about what your project is coughdmmecough.

I’m going to try and say this as non-pretentiously as possible.

I get you. I really do. And as such, I understand that a lot of advice out there doesn’t help in real life, and most “coping mechanisms” that we come up with ourselves don’t actually work. I reaaally struggle with being super critical of myself, and the idea of “failing”, be it academically, socially, or just at life in general, is one of my most consuming and prevalent thoughts. I’m not even sure how much of that is just standard teenage insecurity, but either way I understand where you’re coming from.

As far as projects are concerned, I find that simply asking for critique on the project and responding accordingly helps to get my mind off of it actually failing or getting a bad grade - trying to do my absolute best to impress people with what I can do stops me from focusing on what I want but am unable to accomplish.

I think ultimately fan projects often fail because they’re just not the real thing - they either have that “cringe fanfiction” feel; they’re overly complex or ambitious; or they’re just plagiarism from the actual product.

As far as your project personally, I guess I can’t give much practical advice for success unless I know what the actually project is coughcoughhinthint

5 Likes
5

Very subtle.

But seriously I’m very intrigued by this fan project. Are you comfortable with sharing any details?

2 Likes
6

my only personality trait.

3 Likes
7

Yes :crazy_face:

I can say its Bionicle quest for the masks tcg related and that’s about how in depth I’m going to get into it here. Sorry for that but them rules.

This topic isn’t neccesarily about how my project is going to succed, its supposed to be more in general about things to think about or do.

Don’t worry about that it didn’t sound very pretentious to me.

This is overall an interesting take, I guess many people do rush into projects or maybe do them to get clout. Thusly not really thinking about the practical execution of them out. Which is probably just a highway to failure.

2 Likes
8

Sounds pretty neat, although I’m not that experienced with TCGs. Could you DM me a link or would that be against the rules?

1 Like
9

I dunno, don’t think so, basically you can’t promote something you are working on in a topic in general and you can’t make a topic advertising your project unless you are master.

So pms should be fine I guess.

1 Like
10

Don’t let the rest of your team move to a new site and be forced to leave you behind.

(I was part of the Bionicle Eternal team back when they were on the LMBs, and I initially wasn’t able to follow them here. I did rejoin them eventually, but the project has since kinda gone on haitus)

I think the biggest killer of projects is ages. When most of the members of the project are below or at college age, it can really suck time out of the team once they reach that age.

EDIT: But hey, they got one book of the story/sets out, so that’s something right? Even got a website.

2 Likes
11

Hey, man, don’t beat yourself up over it.

Plenty of people in the world start things they don’t ultimately finish. Not even just fan projects. It’s hard enough to be a creative even when you’re getting paid and you have a team and resources and support. Imagine how hard it is for anyone to do anything without any of that.

So fan projects “failing” doesn’t reflect anything on the people making them, or leading them. I put “fail” in quotes because, how can something fail if it’s never seen the light, ya know? In my honest opinion, it would be far worse for me if I made something, shared it, and nobody liked it than it would be for me to try something and leave it unfinished, at least on a personal pride level.

But that shouldn’t stop you from trying things, and honestly, failure is the greatest teacher. I’ve been involved in and out with a couple Bionicle fan projects myself, but I’ve also attempted many personal projects that didn’t turn out like I imagined. Here’s the best I can offer in terms of advice:

  1. Be wary of over-ambition. Right from the start, always. Whether you’re leading the charge or you’re looking to join a project, you need to always be cautious and question the scope. There are countless projects out there looking to “make a feature-length film” or “revive/continue a franchise” or, most famously, “make a AAA game.” Great things are built in small, achievable steps over time. No one, no matter their skill, and especially not on their first try, is going to make the next big thing.
  2. Start Small. As small as possible. Infinitesimally small. Think of the thing you want to create. Cut that in half. Now remove half of the content from that. Then maybe, for good measure, do a fourth of that.
    Example: you want to make a graphic novel series. Instead of dreaming up this mega-long, epic story and planning out 5 whole books, STOP. Start with something small. Do a single comic strip. 3 or 4 panels with a gag at the end. Finish that, fully, then release it into the world. Get feedback on that. Make another one. Repeat, over a long time, and gradually add to the scope. Use what you learn from one small project to build the next.
  3. Finish. Going along with #2, it’s more important to finish something than it is to continuously work on something. When you finish something, you can show it to people. You can ask for feedback. You can gain experience. It doesn’t matter how good or bad that thing is, it’s finished. A finished, completed project is more than most people ever do, no matter how good it is or how big it is.
  4. Fail Faster. This is a principle from game design, and it’s one of my favorites for anything. Failure is what allows us to learn. You can’t get to the best version of something without getting through all the terrible versions of it first. So, do it quick, do it dirty, make what you want to make by whatever means available. Right now. As quickly as possible. Don’t make it pretty, make it ugly. If the thing you’re working on still feels right, feels good, gets you excited even when it’s a piece of quick trash, then it’s something worth pursuing to the end.

Those are probably my big 4 things on how to actually achieve a goal, and probably the biggest reasons most fan projects burn out.

Most fan projects are over-ambitious. They imagine too much, they want to do everything. They want to be massive, huge.

They also want to be perfect, right from the start. They close themselves off from view, from feedback, because they want to suddenly appear! “Wow, look at this thing that came out of nowhere! It’s perfect! It’s awesome!” It’s the myth of perfection. We, as consumers, never see the full amount of effort or the failure it takes to reach a finished product. And it fools us. We think the things we love just appeared as they are, that all the details were planned out from the get-go.

Nothing ever just appears. There are ten-thousand and one crappy versions of that thing that came before, but they all helped make the thing better.

So don’t feel bad, or discouraged. It’s all helping to make the next thing better. Whatever your idea is, find something smaller to do and show us! Then build from there!

A little side-note that didn’t fit my main message here, but another big reason fan projects fail is because they are works of passion, not endurance. Yes, you should always have passion when working on a project. That’s what gives it energy, motivates you to keep going. But, with Bionicle projects specifically, fan passions are like quick pan-flashes. I remember being a part of a project that started immediately after G2 ended. Everyone was really excited to make something because we were all still feeling that burn from the cancellation. But, that burn fades. You can’t build something lasting off of something as fleeting as disappointment. Whatever you’re making, you need to know exactly why you’re making it, for who. You need to be fully aware of what it is that’s going to motivate you to keep going because making something is hard and you will want to stop. It cannot be vague.

6 Likes
13

I’ve heard of this project before but I don’t think I’ve seen alot from it. Could be worth googleing later.:grinning:

Yee I can see how that’s an issue

Hmm interesting, there could definately be some merit too that theory.

Overall a really well put together post, I’d also like to comment on your points a bit. So for this first one I think is the common concensus for why projects fail, Over ambition isn’t your friend but at the same time ambiton can also bring you forward. Its a dubble edged sword to say the least.

Again a really good point, I do think however it has it applications more so to film, narratives or storytelling than lets say a game, app or product. Now that’s not to say its not valid for the later it is, however there is the problem with games and such that they end up getting stuck in development. Now the most important thing about these type of projects I think is having a well thought out plan to begin with. It goes for stories, narratives and films too but the difference is a plot evolves more frequently and often than a product, app or game as its something that develops with time in a different way.

Definately 100% hard agree

Interesting, never heard of this before you learn something new everyday I guess. Its definately something that’s practical and I would definately want to try this out sometime down the line.

This is true, its overlooked how much that actually goes into things most of the time. The best middle ground is to find people you are comfortable sharing your ideas with for feedback whole working on something if you now want to make this splashy reveal. Which is a practice already done in design.

1 Like
14

Here’s a link to the site: https://sites.google.com/view/bionicle-eternal/home

2 Likes
15

The reason I think most fan projects fail is due to poor management. So here’s some advice which I’ve broken into sections. Looks like there may be some overlap with Pakari’s post as it took me a while to write this up.

Iterations
The phrase ‘fail fast’ is a common motto that I think isn’t exactly right when it comes to project-making. The right phrase I think is to ‘quickly iterate’. An iteration is simply a version of your project. Making small improvements quickly is a good way to test various ideas and get the project to take shape.

Complexity and Logistics
Every project can be broken down into smaller sub-projects, which may be broken down further until you reach their fundamental components. Identifying those components and figuring out how combinations of them may affect the complexity of a project is a crucial part of the process that I think is often missing. This is also tied with working out how long each of those sub-projects might take to make.

The reason why projects become overly ambitious is because this complexity aspect hasn’t been taken into account for the entire process. Developing a plan for the start of a project is good, but it may not be sufficient, since the plan may change as the project takes shape and more iterations occur. So keeping track of changes to complexity is a good way to manage big projects.

Personally I think keeping the complexity of a project low is good when you’re trying to get stuff done.

Teams and Prototypes
For very complex and ambitious projects, some think their first course of action is to assemble a team in order to begin working on it. However I think a better approach is to first develop a functional prototype of the project. Essentially it would be a mini version of the project. For a movie it might be a collection of scenes that work as a short film. For a game it could be a level.

While you may not possess all the skills necessary to create the full project right away, I think working on a proof of concept like this is very helpful for two reasons. It allows you to figure out the logistics of the project, and more easily communicate with potential team members about what the project is, since communication is key in any group project.

Advertising and Motivation
Often people come up with a title and logo and/or trailer and call it a project. Never do this. Instead try working on the down-low. I find that motivation can be inversely tied with promotion. The more promotion, the less motivated you are to actually develop the project further and vice-versa.

I think that advertising should be one of the last phases of a project to consider. It makes sense to advertise once the project is complete.

5 Likes
16

Sure, I agree. My wording might be a bit misleading. Perhaps what I mean to say is that ambition should grow over time. The only way to improve is to challenge yourself and do something you’re not absolutely sure you can do; every project you do should have a little bit of ambition, but not more than necessary!

Hmm, talking on games specifically, I do think that is a problem with over-ambition, at least if you’re talking about indie games (a real AAA game made by a professional studio can get stuck in development for a whole host of unrelated reasons).

Starting small, in the context of a game specifically, refers to-

…uh…yea! This exactly! Beat me to it, Waj.

A working prototype. For a game, it might be a test level with all the needed mechanics. For an app or something it’d be a bare-bones, ugly version, but it works as intended. For something like a comic, it might be just a short scene, or a one-shot (I actually did this for my own graphic novel project). I think it does sort of apply to anything quite equally.

Of course, they have to be the right people. If you limit your feedback to close friends and family, to only people you’re comfortable with, you’ll end up with a lot of praise and not enough real feedback.

People you’re comfortable with is a good thing, but I’d advocate strongly for showing your projects mostly to people you aren’t normally comfortable with. Only those people are going to tell you what you need to hear. They’re the ones who are gonna be brutally honest to the benefit of the project.

Hmm, I think “fail fast” is just a more catchy, attention-grabbing version of the same thing. They are fundamentally the same concept, in my eyes. The key idea is that not every iteration is going to be the best one; they will fail in one aspect or another. The goal, of course, isn’t to purposefully fail, it’s to move as fast as possible through those incomplete iterations.

But yes, exactly that.

I think also it provides a very concrete motivator and point of reference for the project, even as it evolves. A good prototype is an excellent gauge of progress, a good motivator as it encapsulates the raw core of your idea, and a good reminder to check the complexity; too often people fall into “feature creep” and attempt to move too far past the limits of their prototype too soon.

I find this is somewhat true, but also be wary of this. If you tell no one about your project, then the only person holding you accountable for finishing it is yourself. It becomes very easy to let yourself off the hook.

Having at least even a person or two who know about the project and constantly check in gives you a reason to move forward, even if it’s just the threat of a deadline.

For me, it’s my mother, who is constantly asking me if I’m working on what I need to be working on.

This exactly. Too many times projects out there start advertising and making teasers and trailers and social media accounts when they haven’t even got something to show for their efforts yet.

3 Likes
17

Yep they’re the same concept. The change of name just helps frame things in a slightly more neutral direction, since the word ‘failure’ is often seen with a negative connotation. While you could try and change your perception of the word, I find its easier to just come up with a different way to say it. Plus I think its more honest to what actually occurs.

It takes a certain level of self control and discipline to be accountable for yourself and to not disclose details about your project. I definitely agree that having those few people to check in with you can be very helpful to keep yourself on track.

2 Likes
18

It took me until my late 20s to start a YouTube channel, because I was worried about failing or being unable to match the quality of other content creators. Before that I was big on writing down ideas but never doing them.

Possibly the polar opposite of what’s outlined by the (very good) posts above, but I have seen a lot of people oscillate rapidly between ‘I’m gunna do this-and-this-and-this’ and ‘I’m rubbish and fail all my projects’.

4 Likes