Headcanons & Retcons on the Kanohi Subject

LEGO BIONICLE
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Edited 03/12
Combining canon & headcanon interpretaions from the discussion below
Props to Toa Kebaka & Lesnichiy
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This is what makes sense to me:

  • Matoran wear powerless kanohi (noble & great shaped)
  • When transformed into toa they gain a (true) great version of their prior-to-the-transformation powerless mask
  • & finally when turned into turaga the toa gain a real noble kanohi version of their mask & can only wear such (head does not adjust great or powerless masks even if tried being put on)

Basically: masks’ shapes are strongly tied to their respective power (Toa Norik’s “Pehkui” IS a Kiril - point blank period xd).

Powered masks shapeshifting to better fit a being’s kanohi standard doesn’t click w/ me

The ‘toyline canon vs storyline logic canon’ paradox is what got me here
So, therefore (imo):

  • Turaga Lhikan & Dume’s noble kanohi are not the real deal, bein’ way too similar to their great / set counterparts (so therefore not canon)… & i’m pretty sure the Kiril we have was meant to be a great Kiril as Toa Norik was supposed to be Toa Dume. Plus the movies are semi-canon when it comes to a lot of things (Teridax’s mask being based on a prototype set for an example). So Noble versions aren’t just elderly looking great masks, in reality they should be different looking but still fitting their great versions’ style guide (aka cultural design)
  • Lhikan’s Hau (the “Metru” look) is different from the Metru Hau (the “Mata” look) due to the cultural difference between the northern & southern islands’ stylization choices - that stays as is
  • Lhikan’s mask being given to Jaller makes no sense so it’s therefore worthy of not bein’ canon. It’s movie-noble form should’t be canon in the 1st place due to the stated above.
  • Jaller’s Hau & other matoran’s Team Mata masks are powerless / great-shaped as per official canon
  • The Av-matoran are the earliest matoran & yet their kanohi look way too detailed & adaptive to be just regular nobles & way too similar to the adaptive Nuva greats to be nobles at all
    So they’re Most Likely Adaptive great versions of the Team Mata masks which they’re able to use to the extent of Turaga’s nobles (due to the prototype pro’s of Av-matoran)
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I’ve never understood why their masks look nothing like the toa mata’s masks (with the exception of of Photok (the orange one)(I think that was his name)) also if they are the earliest matoran why are they orange, lime green, dark blue and dark red?

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their color scheme is such to prevent them from bein’ identified by makuta as Av-matoran

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I see a lot of confusion in your post, so allow me to clear it up:

This fundamental view is wrong, which probably led you to many incorrect conclusions.
Most Matoran do not have Noble or Great Kanohi. They have Powerless Kanohi, which are IN SHAPE, of either Great or Noble version - the masks themselves are not at that power level though.
When they become Toa, the masks turn into true Great Kanohi - both shape and power.
Likewise, when Toa transform into Turaga, Kanohi change from Great to Noble - again both in shape and power level.

Not sure what you mean by that, but 1) we only have Noble depiction of Kiril (Dume’s mask), we do not know what the Great looks like, 2) the Gold Good Guy set (Turaga Lhikan) may have Great Hau, but canon appearance of Noble Hau is that in the movie.

That is true, yes.

Yes it does. That was an actual Noble Hau. Powered masks (Noble and Great and higher) can change their appearance to better suit the user - that is why the result was golden Noble-shaped Noble Hau turning into yellow Great-shaped Noble Hau.

Toa Mata DO have Great Kanohi. You do not need to resort to headcanon.

Those are canonically regular Noble shapes for Mata masks. The fact they look similar to adaptive armor is purely a result of set design process and does not have any story implications.

I hope this will help clear out misconceptions!

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i appreciate the clarification big time
stuff make waayy more sense now

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No problem! I’m glad to be of any help.

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still the Av-matoran masks bein’ real noble shapes bugs me :sweat_smile:

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But why? :smile:

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they fit more w/ the Nuva adapted kanohi
my mind won’t allow it to make sense lol

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Well, yes, but maybe try picturing them in Mata colors - Noble Kakama already looks close enough, Akaku has similar angular eyehole, mouthpiece and beam-like motifs, Noble Miru has similar overall shape and forehead (but otherwise is the most different of them all, I guess)

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u know what, mabey it’s just the foreign stylization (like in Lhikan’s case) lol
there we go

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If we’re allowed to post our own general headcanons on Kanohi, a big one for me is that Bitil’s mask should have been a mask of “cloning” or “duplication”. It would still, in effect, work the same way (there’s a bunch of him at once, but hurting one hurts them all) without the weirdly unnecessary time-manipulation shenanigans.

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The official Mohtrek is much cooler though. In fact perhaps the coolest power in G1.
It is also much more versatile and powerful than a mask of cloning would be.

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How is it more versatile? Every instance of it’s usage in canon, Bitil summons versions of himself that are basically identical to his present self - it’s not like he’s get any benefit out of them being past selves. It’s functionally just duplicating himself.

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Aah, do not underestimate the power of Time Duplication. What you state is merely scratching the surface…
You can summon any past version of yourself you want, from any single moment of your past.
Bitil is a like all Makuta is a shapeshifter, so he can choose from a myriad of different forms he held in the past and summon the most suitible for a given situation. Being a shapeshifter is not the only thing. Whatever form, tool, weapon, or Kanohi mask you weilded in the past, maybe for just a few moments - you can summon in multiples to your present.

Imagine current Tahu summoning 40 Tahu Nuvas, Turaga Dume with a Noble version summoning his Toa self, or Tuyet making bringing several past versions of herself with Nui stone framents in armor.

Most crazy, but equally possible scenario would be Mata Nui using Mohtrek to summon 100 Ignika wearing selves, or 60 Great Spirit Robots.
Mohtrek is the most broken Mask in G1 (in terms of easy to achieve potential, but also top tier in immediate usefulness).

So as you can see, it is much different from simply duplicating yourself. There is a reason it has such a high price to pay if you mess up using it.

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This is never how the mask was actually used, though. When Bitil was a Mistika he just summoned a bunch of other Mistika Bitil’s.

Maybe that’s why it needs a headcanon fix. :wink:

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Most of them were Mistka, but some of them were not (in the book, not comic). Maybe he didn’t feel like he needed anything extra special or specific for a single Toa.

There are so many “broken” things in Bionicle, but not in an obvious or a mundane way. Usually a power is set up to be used creatively, or in combination to be “broken”. For me at least that is one of the main charms of the franchise, not something to be “fixed”.

But hey, if your headcanon will enable you to sleep better then go for it I guess :smile:.

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I agree that the Mohtrek should be changed, just not for the reasons you suggest.

To me, it never made sense that his past selves would keep injuries but not memories. I know Greg did it to avoid getting too close to time travel, but let’s just consider this from a more objective point of view: both injuries and memories are a results of changes in the body. So why would the mask keep some, but not the other.

It makes more sense if the past selves either keep both or none. And if they keep neither the injuries nor the memories, then what’s the point? So, to me, it makes more sense if the past selves also kept the memories.

Of course, this would have some interesting implications. For starters, it would mean that the Present version would have the memories of being pulled to the “Future” from the Past, and would know exactly how the battle goes (from multiple points of view, too).

For starters, this isn’t quite true. In one of the novels, it was made clear that some of the versions were very different.

But, it also kind of makes sense that he would only pull “recent” past selves; he would want to make sure that his past selves are in a similar mindset. It wouldn’t be much good to pull Past Bitil into a fight with Onua when Past Bitil was in the middle of a nice, relaxing Rahi experiment.

(Of course, if the past selves retained their memories, then the present self would know exactly which past selves to pull…)

Also, keeping the memories allows us to avoid the predicament of “what happens if a past version gets killed?”

The answer is that it can’t happen. Imagine this situation:

Turaga Dume uses the mask to summon a past Toa version of himself to fight a Skakdi. After a long back-and-forth battle, the Skakdi prepares to deliver the killing blow to Toa Dume, but then Toa Dume is suddenly sent back to the past.

But how did Turaga Dume know to deactivate the mask during this blow, and not any of the others? Because he has a memory of being sent back right before that blow is landed.

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Mask shapes are weird from the start. We have different shapers for different powers and levels. But they do not always match. And 0 level and Noble level are same. And masks can change shape. So, accroding to our beloved canon, all Kanohi are practically shapeshifting things, and power depends only on disks and there is no way to know what the mask is, until you try using it. Absolutely personaly, I think it is stupid.

Just read that phrase. It drives me mad. :exploding_head:

Movie is semi-canon + it is a noble version of Lhikan’s special edititon Hau, not a regular one. And with Dume’s mask it is again weird shaping.

They (and actually half of other Bionicle senseless things) are canon just because Lego needed to release new masks. Greg was just given sets and being said “Explain this”. So, most probably I am almost sure those masks are not supposed to be Noble forms of Mata masks.

Also my headcanon:

  • Overall: Masks are still forged from disks and everything, but shape is strongly connected to power, but there are exceptions (Toa Hagah). Matoran and Turaga wear weak Noble Masks (Matoran can’t use them), and Toa, Makuta and others wear Great.
  • Mata masks: they are Noble. Reason: in the times of Toa Mata’s creation, concept of Noble and Great masks haven’t existed, they were all same (Later, Helryx’s mask was decided to be a Great one, but Mata’s were decided to be Noble). That explains why Matoran wear Mata-shaped masks, and Toa Mata can wear Turaga’s masks. Also, Lhikan’s Hau is different just because it is actually Great.
  • Lhikan’s Hau: when Lhikan became Turaga, his mask became Noble, so it was shaped like Jaller’s Hau exactly.
  • Inika: still organic, and thus are not normally shaped. Normal masks are of different shape (though they are similar). Mahri masks are in their normal shapes though.
  • Krakua and Tubduk wear normal Great versions of thaeir masks.
  • Mazeka: should have different mask.
  • Av/Kra-Matoran masks: they are rubbish, they do not exist, I pretend I haven’t seen them. Or they are just other masks, from expanded universe or something.
  • Adaptive masks: should be reshaped to resemble Noble versions more.
  • Ignika: reshaped to fit Toa-sized figure better (but not like Bara magna version). On Bara Magna, Mata Nui wears it in its normal shape.
  • Makuta Phatnoka masks: they do no have teeth, and so are okay.

Hope that was of any help :+1:

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Mask shapes are weird from the start. We have different shapers for different powers and levels. But they do not always match. And 0 level and Noble level are same. And masks can change shape. So, accroding to our beloved canon, all Kanohi are practically shapeshifting things, and power depends only on disks and there is no way to know what the mask is, until you try using it. Absolutely personaly, I think it is stupid.

Exactly

They (and actually half of other Bionicle senseless things) are canon just because Lego needed to release new masks. Greg was just given sets and being said “Explain this”. So, most probably I am almost sure those masks are not supposed to be Noble forms of Mata masks.

This is why Bionicle needs more logical headcanons or fancanons to replace the toyline & movie paradoxes xd
That’s why i wouldn’t be mad if we get a toyless G3 (w/ mabey Just a couple of sets)

Also my headcanon:

  • Overall: Masks are still forged from disks and everything, but shape is strongly connected to power, but there are exceptions (Toa Hagah). Matoran and Turaga wear weak Noble Masks (Matoran can’t use them), and Toa, Makuta and others wear Great.
  • Mata masks: they are Noble, and Toa Mata have unique ability to wear Noble masks. Reason: in the times of Toa Mata’s creation, concept of Noble and Great masks haven’t existed, they were all same (Later, Helryx’s mask was decided to be a Great one, but Mata’s were decided to be Noble). That explains why Matoran wear Mata-shaped masks, and Toa Mata can wear Turaga’s masks. Also, Lhikan’s Hau is different just because it is actually Great.
  • Lhikan’s Hau: when Lhikan became Turaga, his mask became Noble, so it was shaped like Jaller’s Hau exactly.
  • Inika: still organic, and thus are not normally shaped. Normal masks are of different shape (though they are similar). Mahri masks are in their normal shapes though.
  • Krakua and Tubduk wear normal Great versions of thaeir masks.
  • Mazeka: should have different mask.
  • Av/Kra-Matoran masks: they are rubbish, they do not exist, I pretend I haven’t seen them. Or they are just other masks, from expanded universe or something.
  • Adaptive masks: should be reshaped to resemble Noble versions more.
  • Ignika: reshaped to fit Toa-sized figure better (but not like Bara magna version). On Bara Magna, Mata Nui wears it in its normal shape.
  • Makuta Phatnoka masks: they do no have teeth, and so are okay.

This is where i was headed w/ it, logical headcanons
Tho i’ll stick w/ the canon when it comes to matoran wearing powerless kanohi (in noble & great shapes)