… but what do these have to do with standard shapes? For starters, decorations don’t really affect the shape. Also, what makes you think the Mata-shaped masks worn by Matoran aren’t standard-shaped?
Yeah I guess so.
To get more specific, I think it’s still fair to say that the concept of standard shapes is a thing for the mask makers of the universe. With the exception of the Hagah Kanohi, every “wrong shaped” mask in canon had some kind of mutation or other thing happen to it; they weren’t intentionally forged as regular Kanohi in the wrong shape.
The Hagah kanohi (Norik & Iruini’s) are rly just Dume & Nidhiki’s great masks.
Though before release Greg retconed them… The great Kiril counted as a “noble” (yeah sure) Kiril & Nidhiki’s mask being a tubeless (probably foreignly stylized too) Volitak
I don’t mean to take this all out on you, but I am sick and tired of people saying this. Especially about the Kualsi.
Greg didn’t “retcon” anything. It’s true that, early in development, that mask was going to be the Volitak, but the decision was made long before Greg that those sets were of different characters:
The Kualsi is no more of a Volitak than the Rode is a Sanok:
I don’t see why you’re skeptical of this; that mold was originally released as the Noble Kiril with Turaga Dume. If anything, it makes no sense for that to be the Great Kiril; why would the Great and Noble be the exact same shape?
Because Norik was originally Toa Dume w/ a great Kiril.
Lego just wasn’t trying to press 2 different versions of the same mask (1- to minimize confusion between youngsters, 2- to keep things economic). Same reason why the Legend of Metru Nui made the noble Hau & Kiril so similar to the great ones (to not confuse fans).
You can still be sick & tired but that doesn’t change the fact that the Bionicle team spared themselves a redesign by switching characters & mask names.
Half of the prototype Inika from that picture had demo masks and the other half had already existing masks, so this is still a Rode. Plus this is before they came up w/ the rubber / organic kanohi.
There’s just people who don’t wanna go too far off canon because things won’t make sense anymore. And then there’s people like me per se who actually perfer to go off of headcanons (when needed) which make more sense, than to strictly follow the canon which is really just a ‘solidified’ concept (& not a law of nature).
Either way is cool, to each their own. …We just can’t ignore these problems because Bionicle is 50% a toyline.
I absolutely agree with that. I just don’t think the Kualsi is such an example. That set was decided to be Iruini long before any story was written.
If anything, the canon affected the set design; as from the source above, the decision to make the set Iruini was to avoid using Nidhiki as a “filler character”.
Yea, but the mask even looks like the mutated Nidhiki, so how could it have predated the story? You’re kind of contradicting yourself on that.
Either way Tho… It’s not that big of a deal.
Actually both are Noble. Check BS01, Great Kiril does not have an appearance. That is partly why many (me included) are hoping for Toa Dume in the second batch of canon contests.
Oh I know. I just think the movie one works better as a noble variant while the set version works for a Toa as headcanon. There’s a few3Dmodels out there that get the job done.
In hindsight, it might’ve served the lore, masks, timeline (Varian side story + squad formations), and even the serials better if the story team kept the Hagah as Dume and Nidhiki. While the Kualsi is closer to Nidhiki’s mutated head than the Volitak, I don’t think it’s a big deal like @blissfulusername said.
Powerless Kanohi are stanardatly shaped like Noble Kanohi. All of those are not. We know at least Toa Mangai’s decorated Kanohi, which means that in Metru Nui, for the last 4000 years, Matoran haven’t even seen standard-shaped Great Kanohi.
Standard means non-adaptable, non-nuva, non-mutated (hordika), non-fused, non-decorated…
For an example: The Av-matoran, in my opinion, wear adaptable great-looking powerless masks (& not noble standard-shaped ones as the canon states)
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that powerless Kanohi were modelled after the Noble or Great versions of the masks.
Actually, we don’t know that. All we know is that Lhikan had a regional variant of a Hau. We have no reason to believe that any other Mangai had variants.
I wouldn’t say there’s two standards, just two possibilities. The “standard” is that the powerless Kanohi indicates what power it has. As long as it matches either the Great or Noble shape, it gets the point across.
The canon does not state that. All it says is “Noble shaped”. There is no reason to believe that they are anything more than Powerless Kanohi.
This thread is about headcanons.
TO ME- those are great-shaped powerless kanohi w/ an adaptive design (for one reason or another) due to the huge similarity they have w/ the Phantoka Nuva toa.
That means that you are most probably right.
Correction to headcanon:
In my headcanon, Matoran wear Noble-powered and Noble-shaped Kanohi
Yes and here too, though it is not really important.
Well, all remaining unstandards can be called exceptions. Canon is not as bad as I thought.
No: Noble Hau-shaped Komau-powered mask is not a standard shaped mask. Standard shape means that by that shape Mask’s power and level can be deterimed.
Also, I found an interesting qoute regarding masks and their shapes. And I think this is weird. If Matoran does not know how Great-shaped masklooks like, than he just gets random mask(?), this is too complicated…
Without having read the entirety of this thread, here are my 2 widgets on this:
If the Matoran were simply not able to use mask powers - but could wear masks that have powers - this would create a massive plot hole, given that any Toa Mata could just have asked a Matoran who had a given mask they still needed to complete their set to lend it to them.
The fan game “Masks of Power” indeed implies this is possible, since there is one Matoran who, as a reward for a quest you can complete, gives you his “old Pakari”. This is predominantly about unlocking a cosmetic feature that you can equip, to make all your Pakaris look like in early Bionicle drawings. But you do indeed also receive one copy of a Pakari along with it.
That fan game obviously isn’t canon, but the ending of the second movie provokes similar questions: Since Vakama puts Lhikan’s Kanohi Hau on Jaller’s face, this means that it would either morph back into a Noble / Great Hau if a Turaga / Toa put it on, or Vakama is wasting a perfectly good Noble Hau here by just giving it to a random Matoran at this point (Jaller can hardly have been the Captain of the Guard of Ta-Koro at this point if Ta-Koro didn’t even exist yet, given that they had just arrived on the island).
Some further Kanohi questions I’ve been asking myself:
How exactly does the Kanohi Kaukau work? It’s said to allow the wearer to breathe under water and inside liquid protodermis for a limited amount of time. (Masks of Power in its legacy version actually stuck to this, because the Kaukau only slows down the speed at which your air supply is consumed, and there is indeed one “lake” in the game which is actually a Protodermis pool, yet the Kaukau also works inside it.) So does it function just like a diver’s bottle of compressed oxygen? If so, it should also allow the wearer to breathe elsewhere. For example, if Gali Nuva and Tahu Nuva jumped into a lava pool together, the shield of the Hau Nuva could protect both of them from being melted alive, and the Kaukau Nuva would allow both of them to breathe. Same if Gali were to sink into quicksand, or swampy / marshy terrain. Technically, the Kaukau would even allow the wearer to breathe in space this way!
On the other hand, if the use is indeed restricted to water and Protodermis, does the Kaukau somehow split H2O into H2 and O2? If so, why is this process time-limited if there’s plenty of H2O all around you? And how long would you have to stay inside a water pool until the Kaukau would have turned the entire content of that water pool into gases? ^^ I guess this would also imply that Protodermis would contain oxygen in some way that the Kaukau could filter out. Anyways, this is more akin to the way it seems to work in Bionicle: The Game, as well as in Trials of the Great Spirit / Masks of Power 2.0, because there the Kaukau just allows you to breathe underwater indefinitely simply by wearing it, without consuming any mask energy.
If Gali Nuva and Kopaka Nuva jump into the sea south of Le-Wahi together, can they dive down to the floor of the sea and use the Akaku Nuva to both look through the sands of the sea floor at the neck of the Great Spirit Robot? The layer of terrain covering the robot should be much thinner here than on the surface of the island itself.
Could Takua theoretically have attempted to put on the Mask of Light as soon as he found it to turn into Takanuva? I completely get why he never attempted this in the movie - he explicitly says that he believes he doesn’t have a story of his own, and he actively runs away from any responsibility in the beginning, so he never would have thought of doing this. But would the mask have accepted him as a wearer right away, given that it already had selected him has its “herald”? It is not necessarily implied that the Mask of Light (Kanohi Avohkii) has a mind of its own, like the Mask of Life (Kanohi Ignika) does.
