Just curious- Why does there have to be 12 elements?
This, as explained in the first post. So technically there doesn’t “have” to be 12 elements, but I think it’s a reasonable enough goal.
On another note, @SirKeksalot was the comment about an element of ash/debris from another topic meant in relation to this? I kinda assumed it was in this topic in the first place and only just realized it wasn’t. 
That doesn’t seem like a good qualifier, cause uh, you can’t have fire, lightning, or air in a vacuum.
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You can put air in a vacuum without making anything else. The air will expand to fill its container (if it’s in an empty room and not space or something), but a Toa of Air can still make air in a vacuum. Lewa actually does this in G1 when he, Artakha, and some other guys get teleported into space.
Fire and lightning are exceptions to this rule because fire represents a fundamental natural phenomenon of heat and, as I have lumped it with plasma, a form of matter. So, by the definition I’ve laid out here, you can have Fire (the element, not simply open flame) in a vacuum. In addition, because a flame consists of hot gas and Toa of Fire can already create flame without needing a fuel source, they can still shoot a jet of flame in a vacuum. It’ll take a lot of work to keep it going because there’s no oxygen for it to burn, and it won’t really do much, but the gaseous component is still there.
Lightning represents electromagnetic force, which is one of the 4 fundamental forces of the universe. An object can have a magnetic field in space, and an electromagnetic wave can propagate in space, which is actually how light works. A Toa of Lightning could fire a bolt of electricity or make a magnetic field independent of whether there’s anything around him, which defies the laws of physics, but all of these elements do.
It was not, although these are relevant discussions. I think the revelation about the potential for an “Ash” element has helped in some capacity because it’s brought me to 12 without the need for Aether, which is an element idea I have a love-hate relationship with because it doesn’t feel like the other elements.
I think I may relegate in-universe concepts to non-elemental powers and Matoran who can be attuned to those powers to accommodate things like this, Sonics, and Psionics, which have their fans but don’t fit with the direction for elements this universe takes. What I’m torn about is how these Matoran exist in this world, given the nature of where elemental power ultimately comes from (which I will refrain from revealing for the time being).
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If you’re fine with all of the characters and elements being able to defy the laws of physics, then why is your criteria based on something that applies within the realm of physics?
Because even with magic, there’s no way to have sound in a vacuum and have it make sense. So, let’s say there’s a Toa of Sonics and he’s in a vacuum, and somehow, he produces a noise that can be heard on the other side of the room. What’s actually happening? How the hell am I supposed to describe the process? Like, okay, a Toa of Lightning can make a magnetic field out of nothing because that’s part of his element, but sound needs something to propagate through, so if there’s sound in a vacuum, well…it’s not sound. It can’t be.
The laws of physics are inescapable. Any magic system I design must ultimately contend with them and have workarounds or concessions based on those laws, and there is a point at which there’s no way for something to make sense. Something’s got to give.
I would like to reiterate:
This canon can have powers that aren’t considered elemental, as well as Toa of those respective powers. Deciding what an “element” is simply boils down to Matoran cosmology, which does actually have to make some physical sense for reasons that, again, I can’t explain yet. An elemental power is really just control over some matter or energy which can possess unique mana. Fire has mana, water has mana, kinetic energy has mana–but a soundwave doesn’t have mana; or, if it does, it’s just Kinesis mana, since sound is motion.
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It doesn’t make sense to me that a Toa of Lightning can find a way to do the impossible but a Toa of Sonics can’t.
That being said, your worldbuilding is your worldbuilding, and that if anything is something I can respect.
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It might help if I put it this way: I can actually try to explain what the Toa of Lightning is doing. Every Toa of a given element can make their element out of nothing. A Toa of Earth can make a rock, for example. A Toa of Sonics needs something else to be there to make his “element,” and if there’s nothing there and he somehow makes sound, I can’t explain what’s going on using this magic system because now he’s doing something that breaks rules outside of the ones I’ve already established.
If I can’t really say what’s even happening, let alone how it’s happening, I think there’s a problem there.
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I see. It makes a lot more sense when you say it that way.
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Just wanted to point out that lightning isn’t the electric field itself, but the movement of electrons liberated from air molecules by that field.
In lightning, and currents in general, each constituent electron only travels a short distance and it’s the overall flow that gives the effect.
So in that sense, lightning is just as impossible in a vacuum as sound by your rules - both require a physical medium to travel through, and neither can be created by emitting some material only at the location of a Toa.
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A bolt of electricity would be impossible, then, but a magnetic field would not. Earth’s own magnetic field extends well beyond its atmosphere. That’s why I’ve been steering away from talking about thunderbolts and focusing on magnetism, which I’ve lumped into Lightning.
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Then your “Lightning” and “Light” are the same, if Lightning gets Electricity and Magnetism. 
I split up Light and Lightning partly because this would lump too many powers into one element, and Toa of Lightning would be dramatically overpowered as a result compared to Toa of other elements; and partly because not everything that stems from the same phenomenon has to be under the same umbrella–otherwise, all energy would be covered by Kinesis, since all energy is kinetic/potential energy in some form. These elements were lumped not because I had to lump them, but because doing so gave a much-needed buff to both elements and I had a good excuse to do so.
If I wanted to lump everything to that degree and obey physics in that way, none of the original 6 elements could be represented in their original form, and I’d need elements for the strong and weak nuclear forces, which are not only hard to conceptualize, but potentially busted. At the end of the day, this is a magic system.
A classical elemental roster must, by definition, make no sense when stacked against physics, as does any given magic system. The only reason I’m citing physics is because there are certain laws and phenomena outside the realm of this particular magic system which I either need an entirely new system to work around or–and this is the easier solution, both for me and the audience–just admit defeat sometimes. Would Sonics be ■■■■■■■ cool? Potentially, sure; but making it not 100% reliant on other elements necessitates a new magic system, and this universe will have at least 2: elements and Kanohi. It doesn’t need a super-specialized explanation for how Sonics can work in a vacuum.
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Here’s an idea:
You could lump several elements together, to get 6 elements instead of 12.
- Energy: Fire, lightning, light
- Water: Water, ice, acid (?)
- Earth: Metal (iron), lava, rock, sand, dirt
- Flora: Plantlife
- Air: Wind
- Aether: Gravity, space
It could be kind of like Avatar The Last Airbender, in that a particular character can use several different sub-elements.
I think that doing something like this would keep the elements from feeling to similar each other. It also makes it unique, compared to g1 and g2 bionicle. 
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In my very last post, I kind of implied that that’s what I want to avoid doing. It takes too many powers and puts them under the same bubble while leaving other elements in the dust. Why does Air only get wind and Flora only get plant life, but Energy gets fire and lightning and light? Why would I even do this to begin with? Then it doesn’t even feel like a proper elemental system, just a bunch of powers.
This is not Avatar and does not have to be. Some elements already have a certain degree of versatility to them, but not on the same tier as earthbending, for example. This elemental system is meant to put things into more specific categories to limit what characters with these powers can do. Tahu only has fire, plasma, and lava to work with, and these things all serve more or less the same purposes: burning/melting stuff, and area denial.
Revising the list of elements already accomplishes this. What you suggest goes against the thing that makes this system interesting to begin with, which is the idea of having more specific categories. The rest of the lore and story I’ve laid out already distinguishes this iteration of Bionicle from prior ones; I don’t need to bork the elemental system to that end. Hell, the whole reason I had to carefully pick out what replaces Stone is because I don’t want the Toa’s powers to be too different from what they had in G1 and I wanted Pohatu’s fighting style to feel more or less the same.
I do not like this emoji, Brick. Its smug aura mocks me.
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Before I start throwing out a couple ideas I had, define what you mean by “element”.
do you like this emoji? 
An “element” has to meet these criteria:
- It must be a component of the natural world in some capacity
- It must be observable and comprehensive to a pre-industrial, pre-scientific-revolution society (this one is fudged a bit for some elements like Kinesis
- It should require at most a short sentence to explain what it is and what powers it grants the user, provided the name doesn’t tell you all you need to know
- It should be possible for at least some Matoran (depending on geography) to encounter and interact with it on a daily basis
- It should have obvious differences in combat and general “feel” from all other elements
- It should be something that a Toa can create without needing another element to be present
- It must be matter or energy in some form
Elements don’t have to encompass all phenomena which derive from the same thing or forms of the same substance, nor does every phenomenon and substance get an element. Individuality and comprehensibility are the first and foremost criteria for an element, and beyond that is just whether it makes sense given when the story takes place and what in-universe concepts exist. I do have plans to expand on what can and can’t be an element, but they get too meta and too plot-dependent to warrant an explanation here.
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I’ll get back to you on this one 
that’s quite limiting at this point, though, as most of the obvious ones are taken.
I mean, what else would an element be? It’s either stuff or it’s energy. Even scrapping Aether on those grounds, Ash and Poison (taken from Vile’s idea about “chemistry”) round it out to 12.
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