I’d like to think I’m a bit of a buff when it comes to Bionicle lore, but I was thinking recently about some stuff relating to 2001-03 and it occurred to me that I have no idea how the Toa Metru/Turaga knew about the Toa Mata.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to remember the Turaga told the Matoran about the Mata by name before Takua summoned them. If the Mata were contained within the Codrex ever since Mata Nui awoke for the first time, and had been floating on Aqua Magna ever since the Great Cataclysm, how did the Turaga even know their names, let alone that they existed and that there was a chance they could arrive on the island of Mata Nui?
I don’t believe it was ever definitively confirmed how they knew, but I think most people generally assume that the Turaga knew some sort of legend or fable that existed in Metru Nui/the MU which predicted their arrival. That or a Vakama vision would work.
Maybe the knowledge that the Mata would arrive is ingrained in every MU resident’s programming–given that the Mata were meant to defend Mata Nui in the event of a cataclysm, it makes sense that the other MU inhabitants would have a programmed awareness/knowledge of these heroes.
Probably the case. Why else would the Turaga have Takua bring the Toa Stones to Kini Nui and put them in a circle? There doesn’t seem to be any precedent for that beng a Toa Summoning method, and why didn’t the Turaga didn’t just give the Toa Stones to a group of Matoran? It has to be a Vakama Vision.
I don’t think the Turaga Metru knew that they were outside the Robot, or that the Toa Mata were floating out there. No one knew that the Toa Mata’s Canisters malfunctioned.
I do recall Greg saying back in the day that it was just an MU legend that presumably nobody cared about too much because nothing was really wrong. Then the Great Cataclysm happened and the Turaga started telling it to give the villagers on Mata Nui hope.
I don’t really like retroactive explanations like that, but there you go.
I think that makes sense, it’s a good idea for the inhabitants to know there’s a contingency plan in case something goes cataclysmicly wrong, so that there won’t be mass hysteria.
I heard something how they were supposed to be launched out during the Great Cataclysm but a glitch happened, so they had to be signaled on Mata Nui and eventually came.
Well, the Av-Matoran of Karda Nui met the Toa Mata and later told legends of them. Prior to the Great Cataclysm Karda Nui was uninhabitable due to the energy storms. So where did the Av-Matoran live during that time? BS01 says this:
When their work was finally complete, the Av-Matoran returned to their homeland, and lived in relative peace. (…) The Av-Matoran that remained in their homeland were struck by the Great Cataclysm. Their land buckled beneath them, and fell into Karda Nui. Their homes on the Southern Continent, were, in reality, upon giant stalactites in Karda Nui.
I’d say it’s very likely that the Av-Matoran traded with other Matoran and thus also tales of the Toa Mata were spread.
For the next step I would agree with this:
And for the final point, their summoning, I’d also agree that Vakama’s visions would be the most likely explanation.
This would work, but I do believe that the Av-Matoran were supposed to be kept secret from the other tribes, due to their special nature. That’s why disguising those separated during the Time Slip was necessary, to avoid the BoM discovering them. Having them in regular interaction with other Matoran would render that precaution unnecessary. Plus, the “homes on the Southern Continent” you referenced were underground, so it’s unlikely the regular Matoran even knew they were there…
No, the Time Slip was done to ensure that the Brotherhood of Makuta couldn’t wipe them out. BS01 about the Time Slip:
the Order of Mata Nui removed several Av-Matoran—Matoran of Light—from their homeland in case the Brotherhood of Makuta ever turned evil and attempted to wipe the Av-Matoran out.
The Av-Matoran first lived inside caves below the Southern Continent.
And yes, you are right that the Time Slip was done to prevent an Av-Matoran massacre. But still, it doesn’t make sense for the OOMN to initiate that protocol unless they believed the BoM would discover Karda Nui. If the Av-Matoran are out in the open to begin with, the whole effort of hiding them in the first place is wasted–why hide some, but not all?
I assumed that this would have been the case before Karda Nui was even created, during the time the Great Spirit Robot was still constructed and they lived in those “caves” to build stuff.
I admit that this doesn’t have to be the case, but I also assumed that these “caves” later became Karda Nui - and once the Great Spirit Robot was activated were thus uninhabitable.
Then it says that the Matoran “returned to their homeland”, however. Could you call a couple caves a homeland? Or does this refer to the Southern Continent in general as a thing apart from Karda Nui?
That’s a difficult one…
I’d say there isn’t exactly a reason for why they couldn’t live on the surface. The big question would thus probably be what the Av-Matorans actual purpose after the work in Karda Nui was.
Wasn’t there this image with Av-Matoran working in some kind of computer terminal node somewhere? But then would you call that a cave?
I believe that image was from TLR, in Mata Nui’s narration at the beginning. I’m not sure how canon it is, but it may be a viable way to explain the Caves. I always assumed that the caverns existed between the surface of the continent and the stalactites, kind of like little air pockets. Then, when the cataclysm struck, the stalactites fell, destroying the caves but allowing the Matoran to rebuild on top of them.
It is rather confusing, wondering whether they lived on the surface. It’s possible they did–I just always assumed they didn’t, given their secrecy as a people, their seeming lack of connection with the other Matoran, and the general attempts to keep them hidden.
The caves were seperate from Karda Nui; they were above it. They lived in Karda Nui first before Mata Nui was activated for the first time, then they moved to their homeland (the caves) when the work on Mata Nui was complete. When the Great Cataclysm happened, the caves feel into Karda Nui and rested on the stalagmites there.
As for why they didn’t live on the surface, the OoMN wanted to keep their existence a secret from the rest of the universe.
I personally never considered them to be particularly secretive. I saw their unimportance to the general storyline until the events of Karda Nui rather owed to the location of the Southern Continent - when did anything of importance happen there until the Great Cataclysm, baring Toa Jovan and his team retrieving the Mask of Life during the Great Disruption? I mean, it’s not like Bo-, Ba- or Ce-Matoran ever played a bigger role or were mentioned more often.
As I already indicated, I highly doubt this. There simply isn’t a reason for them to do so. Yes, they took steps in order to prevent the Av-Matoran to be wiped out within the Matoran Universe, but otherwise?
The same reason they executed the Time Slip; the Makuta are vulnerable to beings of light (Av Matoran/Toa), so would want to get rid of any that exist so they can’t be threatened by them. By keeping the Av Matoran secret from the BoM, the OoMN can keep the Av Matoran safe from the BoM.
You have to keep in mind that the Makuta likely already knew about the Av-Matoran, though. I mean, aside from Tren Krom and Artakha the Makuta probably were the beings with the most knowledge about the Matoran Universe - and also originally the Brotherhood was meant to create Rahi and help the Matoran.
Aditionally during the Time Slip the Brotherhood still was led by Miserix and thus the Makuta were considered “good guys” by more or less everyone. The Time Slip only happened because the Order of Mata Nui wanted to be sure nothing could happen to the whole population of Av-Matoran.
Lastly there’s the point of Teridax sending the Makuta into Karda Nui to corrupt the Av-Matoran. The Makuta came prepared for that task with Shadow Leeches and everything, so at least Teridax must have known that the Av-Matoran must be there, if anywhere.
Or at least that’s my opinion on this matter. It’s possible that the Order of Mata Nui wanted to keep them secret, but I feel like that’s not very reasonable. Sadly canon lore doesn’t specifically tell us anything more about the Av-Matoran…
I just had an idea - when the Toa Mahri destroyed the cord and Voya Nui sank back to its former place, the Matoran of Voya Nui and Mahri Nui hid in caves beneath Voya Nui. Voya Nui lies directly above Karda Nui. So maybe the Av-Matoran previously lived deeper in those caves, deep enough that the Great Cataclysm made their caves fall into Karda Nui, but not high enough that any of them rose with Voya Nui.
There might still have been at least some trade between the Av-Matoran and the Matoran of Voya Nui this way, though.