I’ve never been very into Ninjago myself, but over the years have found some of the sets to be extremely interesting and imaginative in their own right. It’s interesting to see all the perspectives over in the other recent topic here on the subject of Ninjago’s current status in the LEGO world… so I’m interested to see what you all think of this:
Many of you are probably familiar with LegoDavid. Well, he wrote a great piece for my LEGO blog, which I have posted up at the link below. Check it out!
Some of the thoughts and sentiments seem to have been echoed here and elsewhere, so I look forward to more lively discussion.
Funny enough, this characterization of Ninjago as a long-running, story driven theme, except not much interesting has been done lately with the story and the sets are dull and repetitive, only makes me think of why I hate recent Lego Star Wars. At least Ninjago is more reasonably priced.
I guess I’d have to say that some of these ideas are the opposite of how I’ve perceived it. LegoDavid sees Ninjago as parasitically sucking up resources that could have gone to other original IPs. For some years now, I’ve seen Lego as increasingly unwilling or unable to market original story-driven IPs at all, with Ninjago being survivor, not the instigator. He suggests that if Ninjago were out of the picture, other lines could have their day in the sun, but I wonder, if Ninjago failed, if anything would take its place any time soon. Lego does a lot of licensed themes nowadays - they’re the real threat to original IPs.
I also don’t particularly agree with the idea that Ninjago has stretched out its thematic elastic too far. If anything, I think Ninjago embodies the raw, wild creative potential of Lego better than almost any other theme. The fact that it can do almost anything is one of its greatest strengths. Sure, it’s about Ninja, but can it also have pirates, robots, snake mummies that are also on fire? Yes, yes, and yes. It is true that sets tend to repeat the same ideas a lot, but I don’t hate it for that, because sometimes it actually hits something out of the park. I consider the Ninjago Legacy subline to be a consistently strong theme that proves it’s still possible to make a mech that’s a cut above the rest.
I will acknowledge that the story has stagnated somewhat. Most of the stars used up most of their allotted character development a while ago and watching the show is sometimes an exercise in hoping your favorite character will rotate into a focus role soon so they won’t be stuck as idiotic comic relief. But at the same time, I actually think show has matured in its own way. The early seasons were often sloppy. They introduced a timeline that doesn’t make a lick of sense and completely screwed up Garmadon’s villain arc. The newer seasons are more carefully plotted. On top of that, they’re a lot better animated. Seasons 11 and 12 made me realize how far the fight scenes have come. Like, the final battle in season 12 when Jay summons a cyber-dragon? Legitimately cool.
At the end of the day, I’ll admit, I’m the kind of guy who finds it comforting that the Simpsons is still on the air. I know it’s gotten bad (far worse than Ninjago, in my opinion) but I like to see the specks of good in something that I’ve loved for a long time. Your opinion is your own, but I just bought the Hydro Bounty, and I had a really good time putting it together.
Thanks for being open for collaborating with me, @BrickinTALM! It has been a real pleasure writing that article, hopefully I’ll get to do more for you in the future!
As someone who’s been an on and off Ninjago fan over the years, I feel compelled to give a response to this.
Ninjago came out in the second half of my Fifth Grade year, and I absolutely loved it. I continued to enjoy it for the next few years, and unlike most people, I wasn’t exactly rioting over its cancellation. As much as I loved the theme, I’d grown accustomed to seeing Lego themes come and go. Then when Rebooted came out, I didn’t know what to think. It felt REALLY disjointed from the modern-day/feudal Japan feel that the early years had, though I will admit some of the sets were cool. Then, throughout my high school years, I went through different phases of being indifferent to Ninjago, then thinking “Hey, this theme is kind of cool after all.” Interestingly enough, the negative feelings were always directed at the first half of the year, and the positive feelings were toward the second half.
Then, in 2019, in my first year of college, I was feeling nostalgic and decided to rewatch the first two seasons (which were just as fun as I remembered). Then I watched Rebooted, just because, and then everything that followed. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed those seasons. Then Season 11 came out, and I’ve been following every season since. I’m still enjoying Ninjago, but at times I do kind of feel what @LegoDavid seems to feel: that Ninjago is sucking pretty much all creativity out of Lego, and it just never seems to end. Yeah, I understand Lego is a business, and money, capitalism, blah blah blah. But Ninjago can’t go on forever…can it?
Now to respond to some specific points made in LegoDavid’s essay.
“Let’s admit it, despite the physical toys being the core of any LEGO theme, the TV Series is the reason this theme has become so popular. Without it, I am willing to bet that nobody would have still cared about it by the time it was supposed to end in 2013.”
I will confess that this point is accurate, at least for me. Part of why my preteen self got so into Ninjago was because of its in-depth story. It felt really big, and epic-maybe not as much as Bionicle, but certainly more than Power Miners or Agents.
“Other shows which follow a similar format at least have some sort of character growth or progression throughout their run, but with Ninjago, despite being around for ten years, the characters have still remained pretty much the same as the first time we’ve met them.”
I disagree-at least, for the first ten seasons. At the start, Zane had no idea he was a robot, and when he discovered he was one, it was a huge shock for him. However, he found himself going on a journey of self-discovery and belonging, and eventually, he and the rest of his team grew to accept him for who he was. At the end of Rebooted, everyone was sad that he’d died, and at the start of Tournament Of Elements, his death was still affecting everyone. But when they heard he was still alive, that brought everyone together.
Plus, there’s Kai. At first, he was rather hotheaded and reckless, but he slowly, and subtly, learned humility. He still displays shades of his old personality from time to time, but not as much as before. Jay is still a goofball, but most of his character development focuses on his relationship with Nya. Skybound in particular feels like it gives a lot of development to their relationship. I really love the message about how wishing for something won’t make it come true-you’ve gotta work to make what you want happen. As for Nya, her story is about stepping out of the “side character” role and becoming part of the main team.
Cole…okay, I’ll give you that. He definitely works as a foil to the rest of the characters, but in terms of character growth? I’d say he qualifies as a static character-one who stays largely the same throughout the series.
Unfortunately, the last few seasons (Season 11 onward) don’t seem to have any definite character development. Season 13 did finally put Cole in the lead role, which was great. But as far as evolving the characters, not much seems to have been done. At least, until Nya leaving the team in Season 14.
“On top of all that, it seems like the story, despite running for so long, never really amounts to anything. Typically, any big, epic story spanning multiple TV seasons or volumes of books always constantly builds up to some big, epic climax or conclusion. But with Ninjago, once again, you get none of that.”
This is one of the points where I’m like “yes and no.” The first three years definitely did amount to something. And, as I said earlier, Season 3 kinda did lead into Season 4. Plus, it eventually built up to something big with the Oni trilogy. But…now we have the “Vengestone Arc.” After Season 13, many were speculating that we’d find out who the Vengestone buyer was this year, in 2021, but nothing of the sort has happened. It’s possible that our questions will be answered next year, but there’s no guaranteeing it.
Honestly, if Ninjago had gone up to March Of The Oni and made it an actual big closing season, and not just a four-episode season with exactly one set (if a minifigure pack can be considered a set), then I’d be fine with it ending there. But that’s not what happened. They kept it going. Which…I’m fine with, but I’m not fine with, but I’m fine with, but…okay, let’s just move on.
“But by far, one of the show’s biggest problems with the show are the inconsistent tonal shifts and not maturing with its audience.”
At first, the show definitely did mature with its audience, particularly in Season 4 and 5, and then with 8, 9, and 10. But then it kinda reverted to a more child-friendly tone with Season 11, so…okay, I’ll give you this point.
“As much as there still are quite a few older folks who still watch this show, I bet most of them do more so because of nostalgia’s sake rather than because they genuinely think it is a good show.”
For me, it’s both. Most of my attachment to the theme comes from nostalgia, and while it definitely has shown shifts in quality, I genuinely believe there’s still some juice left.
“All the line keeps giving us is the exact same hero bikes, jets, mechs, and cars over and over again with nothing to make them stand out. There are the occasional gems, of course, such as some of the dragons and temples, but even those tend to get stale very fast.”
Well…yes. We’ve all grown to expect this lineup. But at the same time, you yourself pointed out that there are gems that crop up within each line. Sure, there are some duds like Jay’s Lightning Dragon from 2016, but the majority of the sets I’ve bought (and believe me, I have a lot of Ninjago sets from over the years) are the opposite of junk. From the functionality, and the creative designs and building styles, I can tell the designers really care about this theme and want to make the sets good. Like, yes, the designers are being asked for the same things year after year, but they still put their best feet forward except for in 2013
Plus, each new year has different asthetics…but more on that later.
“But, they too also saw a reduced presence in the second wave, and by the time the third wave hit, they were already completely gone.”
What? Reduced presence in the second wave? What are you talking about? 2012 didn’t just have spinner sets, it had booster packs, too. And it felt like we got even more characters than we did the last year. If anything, I’d say 2012 was an even bigger year for the spinners than 2011! But yeah, I agree, it’s a shame that it died out after that. Imagine if the Anacondrai cultists, or the dragon hunters, or the Merlopians had had battle spinners.
“By this point in time, the line has been so oversaturated, that LEGO are just simply dumping all their ideas that could have become their own separate themes into the Ninjago IP.”
I mean…yes.
Many of these ideas could very well work as their own original themes. But at the same time, I kinda feel Ninjago has always been this way. Like, in the first year, we had them fighting skeletons, then in the second year, we had them fighting snakes, then in the third year, they fought what were essentially golems-none of which real ninja fought back in the days of feudal Japan. Then the next year had robots, and then we got Anacondrai cultists, and then ghosts, and…yeah, you get the idea. Even before its uncancellation, Ninjago introduced wide varieties of different hostile species for the ninja to fight.
And, if you think about it, many of the theming asthetics made sense. If you’re fighting a tribe of tribal islanders, then have it take place on a tropical island. If you’re fighting sky pirates, then give said pirates a bunch of cobbled-together aircraft. If you’re fighting ghosts, then have it take place in a ghastly, Hidden Side-esque environment that existed long before Hidden Side did. And since you’re already going in these crazy directions that suit whatever villainous races you’re fighting, then is it really so “out there” to have the ninja go inside a video game, or to a post-apocalyptic world, or to the bottom of the ocean?
The other redeeming quality (for me, at least) is that it kinda keeps me guessing. Like, where else could the ninja possibly go at this point? Space? If that did happen, I wouldn’t be that surprised.
“On top of that, seeing how profitable the Ninjago formula was, every bigger original theme that has come out over the past decade has kept desperately trying to emulate Ninjago’s success, by incorporating the exact same stale design philosophy of releasing dozens upon dozens of bikes, mechs, jets, and cars, without even understanding the true reason why Ninjago was succeeding with those designs in the first place.”
I’d argue that Chima and Nexo Knights both gave their own unique spins on these concepts-Chima had the animal looks about it, and Nexo Knights felt like a sci-fi medieval theme. Both of these ideas felt quite fresh, though as they went on, they did start to kind of lose that appeal. Then again, what DOESN’T lose its appeal after a while? Isn’t that the whole argument LegoDavid is making about Ninjago-that it’s losing its appeal?
“Both Legends of Chima and Nexo Knights had loads of potential, with sets that were arguably superior to what Ninjago was getting at the time, but due to the subpar quality of their respective TV Shows, both themes failed to find themselves an audience.”
I’m currently watching the Chima series, and while I can’t say I dislike it, it’s definitely not as good as Ninjago. But if it and Nexo Knights don’t have particularly strong shows, then I’d say that’s more of a problem those themes have, not Ninjago.
Ultimately…I’m not sure if I agree or disagree with LegoDavid’s argument. Ninjago has definitely had its ups and downs, and it does seem to have taken over the face of Lego’s original IPs. Monkie Kid doesn’t seem to be “fading out,” but then again, neither does Ninjago. On the other hand, I feel a genuine attachment to Ninjago-not just because I was there from the start and feel nostalgic, but also because I still find enjoyment in it. So I’m not sure if I want it to end, or keep going, or what. It’s just one of those questions that I can never seem to answer.
I completely agree with this. This is kind of what I was getting at when I made that “Could Lego Return To Its Roots?” topic recently. Yes, Ninjago has been a big part of the disappearance of original IPs, but licensed themes have had a hand, too. Again, I do find enjoyment in many of the licensed themes, but I do feel some variety would be nice.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like we’ll be getting any Legacy sets next year.
Honestly, I prefer the 22-minute episode format over the 11-minute one, but yeah, I can see why you’d think that the newer seasons are more tightly plotted. And yeah, the action scenes are still good.
Same. That set is awesome.
[whew, sorry about that textwall. I sure had a lot to say…]
To be honest I think Legacy was what broke the camels back for me in regards to Ninjago. While I won’t argue against the quality of both the Legacy wave and normal wave sets of recent waves in terms of design, I do think knocking the line for its themeing and concepts is completley valid.
When Ninjago legacy was introduced I was originally highly sceptical about it and it feels like my suspision was mostly correct. Let’s not fool ourselves Legacy is a marketed attempt at milking the series dry by quite simply rereleasing sets under the banner that they are improved collectors pieces, yet we continue to get barely half decent, half baked 4+ sets in those sets that has practical 0 value to the actual fan of the show. Even for the target audiene of four year olds the idea of buying a set from an older wave is a bit farfetched.
However that is not where things ends because the mainline itself has flaws of its own in terms of a heavy handed case of identity crisis. Where the line doesn’t really know where to go next instead instictivly settling for a formulaic pattern of Ninja’s versus whatever villain fits the already farfetched establihed themeing of the line that year or you know lets just add 52nd millionth serpentine tribe that didn’t exist for 15 season and for the fun of it lets make them aquatic or technological. As I said earlier Ninjago’s problem isn’t that its selling poorly designed sets but that the sets have no soul or spirit making it feel like a disjointed mess made for making the most amount of buck as possible and cobble that with what I mentioned with legacy and it becomes apparrent that LEGO don’t really care about its lines fans or the healthines of the lines concept.
I’m not saying you can’t enjoy Ninjago for what it is as you have laid out yourself it seems to have alot of stuff going for it. I just hoped that LEGO could’ve been a bit more subtle about the cash grabbing.
Also @LegoDavid It was a great read and I mostly agree with your points even though they were maybe presented in a little too harsh of a tone
I explicitly said that themes like those two have become increasingly scarce since Ninjago, not that Ninjago “killed” them in particular. It was just one of my observations.
BrickinTALM killed Pharoah’s Quest and Monster Fighters and LegoDavid was an accessory to the murder! David gave Jack McHammer the keys to the Scorpion Pyramid which was laced with dynamite that BrickinTALM had placed there last week on his way to work. All they found of Jack was his beanie.
People want it to end essentially because they want Bionicle back. Not literally, figuratively. They want the adventures and stories and vibes of Bionicle, Pharaoh’s Quest, Space Police, Atlantis, etc.
But that’s just not what LEGO is anymore. Now more than ever, LEGO has become polarized into either toys for kids or toys for adults, with no overlap and completely different scopes. I mean, just look at their website. The Kids part is for kids. Bright colors, dumb stories, cool play functions. Ninjago fits right in. The adult part is for huge modular sets and models. Technic is somewhere in between, I guess.
And that’s fine.
You can’t be mad because Ninjago isn’t what you want it to be. It’s what it needs to be, and it’s doing a darn good job at it. LEGO just isn’t what it once was, and that’s not a good or bad thing, it’s just how it is. Complaining about it just makes you sound childish, because … it is. Like, listen to yourself. You’re complaining about a toy expressly designed for children, because it’s designed for children.
I’m no good at organizing thoughts and arguments, so I guess what I’m trying to say is this:
You’re upset about things that can no longer apply. LEGO is no longer designed for what you want. Maybe it never has been, I’m not the one to judge that. But you need to stop judging it from the perspective of something that’s supposed to appeal to you, because it isn’t. And if you can’t accept that, then maybe … maybe it’s time to find another medium.
Oh no I hate Ninjago I must be the plague of this earth/s
Seriously though critiqueing something is allowed,Afols have literally done it for years I was a huge Ninjago fan back in the day and I still watch the show and look up theories from time to time but the toys while really well designed just don’t do it for me mainly because A. Formulaic nature and B. Reused concepts that are getting stale. Let me put it this way Ninjago is today the action theme equivalent of LEGO City or the Nonlicensed version of LEGO Star Wars while for kids that is not a bad thing as all of those products are in their own rights appealing to them as they should be. However as a veteran Ninjago enjoyer its just sad to see the theme fall from what made it special in the first place. I personally don’t hate Ninjago because I have some wet dream about Bionicle coming back if it ends. I’m just disappointed in the corporal nature and monetary practices LEGO of today are practicing. I’m not saying they are not allowed to do this it makes perfectly sense business wise its just disappointing to see it happen to a company whose products you’ve enjoyed most of your life.
Me critizing Ninjago is more about me critizing LEGO because I don’t like their business practices than me wanting to strip the fun of children from them. As I said earlier:
Very well said. I got a tone of angry responses from other places telling me the exact same thing, that I have no right to criticise this theme because it is no longer aimed at me. But just as you said, as a veteran who was around ever since the theme’s inception I do feel genuine disappointment, and I do also feel the urge to express it in words.
I think that we all need to remember that we are not the target demographic for Ninjago. Lego is primarily a toy company, and Ninjago seems to sell spectacularly with no signs of slowing down. If kids are buying all of the Ninjago sets and then along comes a theme like hidden side, and then kids keep buying Ninjago, Lego is going to keep making Ninjago sets because it makes more money and isn’t a risk to create. Ninjago isn’t going away because as ling as it remains profitable, Lego will keep making it. After all, they’re a toy company, and if the afols want a particular theme to go away because it’s “destroying story themes” they most likely won’t listen, because their data shows that Ninjago is profitable. Now I’m not saying that I like all of this, but this is the way it is, and it most likely won’t change for a long, long time. In a perfect world, the only liscensed sets would be Star Wars, Super Heroes, and maybe Harry Potter, and those would only make up about one eighth of the total sets. The rest of the sets could be creator, technic, experiment themes like dots and vidiyo, and most importantly, story themes. Let’s face it, lego would probably not be where it is today if Ninjago didn’t exist. So, in our imaginary perfect world, Ninjago would coexist with themes such as chima, nexo knights, and hidden side. These other story themes would be given just as if not more attention than Ninjago.
There isn’t much we can do about Ninjago. It’s here, it’s eating up other story themes, and it most likely isn’t going away anytime soon. There isn’t a real solution to this mess, other than reliving older story themes, like Ultra Agents, Monster Hunters, and Galaxy Squad, but even then, it’s not enough. So keep doing what we’ve been doing ever since Bionicle ended, and keep story themes alive with our Mocs, art, and stories. If lego won’t give us a new story theme, then we create our own. @LegoDavid and everyone on the team for Pirates of Arvodia have done just that. They’ve created their own story theme with characters, Mocs, locations, art, and much more. Keep the story themes alive by making them yourself. That is all I have to say.
I just realized how much that last part sounded like a pep rally
Except, we kinda are or that’s what Legacy is trying to do its trying to keep older fans through reselling nostalgia and making christmas shopping for parents less of an headache while also get them interested in the new sets.
Which brings me back to my previous point the problem isn’t necessarily the line itself but how The LEGO Group implement its current business practices into the franchise and how that affects the percieved quality of the line.
@LegoDavid Absolutely, I’m very happy to have been able to collaborate as well! Your passion and understanding about all things LEGO will certainly have a place on the blog going forward.
Hm, that’s not quite what I gathered. Personally, I see it as not-so-much as “losing its appeal”, but rather consuming the appeal of so many other potential LEGO IPs. It’s of course important for themes to innovate, but within reasonable boundaries of that particular theme. Ninjago has been grasping at far too many motifs that have passed beyond the scope of the original appeal of the theme
That set is indeed pretty rad. It made me think of Aquazone… and ended up making me wish it was!
Anyway, the point I was going for there was that Ninjago has consumed many aesthetic aspects of those themes (supernatural monsters, mechs, futuristic/ancient ships, etc etc)… and in so doing, it has made the other unique themes “obsolete” and “redundant” and “deadened” (at least from the perspective of what seems to be LEGO’s current course of action).
Exactly… It goes without saying that LEGO should (must) seek profit. But not to the point that quick cash-ins and “safe bets” stymie the potential of the overall brand and that of specific original themes.
