Hey everyone! So after looking through official Greg dialogue I found something I didn’t even realize this whole time during the fight in Karda Nui between Icarax and the other 3 Makuta, Vamprah, Gorast and Mutran, and that is I had no idea that the entire fight Icarax was stilling in agonizing pain! I thought it was just something he felt immediately after being devolved but NO, he literally toughed through it the whole time and was still holding off the other makuta in that fight, not only a testament to his fighting prowess but also to his strength and toughness. He really is tough! The question someone asked was this: “3.when the ignika devolved Icarax did he rcover or is he just in horrible pain or did that kill him or what?” The answer: “3) No, he’s still in pain”
For reference here is where I got the info Official Greg Dialogue | Page 156 I also just realized Icarax’ toughness score on his stats is the highest listed at 18 lol


im surprised he didnt shatter immediately considering antidermis is lime


Devolved? What happened to him


He be tough

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When he encountered “Toa” Ignika in Karda Nui, the Ignika reverted Icarax from his gaseous form to that of solid muscle and protodermis. Given that his armour was designed to contain a gas, not a physical body, this did not go over well.


The Mask of life/kanohi Ignika, now the Toa of life/Toa Ignika used it’s powers over life to de evolve Icarax from energy in armor to a biomechanical being again, so all of his organs and muscle tissue were shoved into places his armor no longer had room for.


I guess that’s why the other Makuta feared him. He’s got mad skillz.

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Woah what a beast still couldn’t beat teridax 1 on 1 though

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In my personal opinion, this is just my thoughts on it so take it or leave it lol but I feel Teridax cheated, he got a small army of Manas to distract Icarax and only attacked with EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER once he was distracted. Teridax fights dirty. He won, but it was an empty victory in my opinion. It’s like bringing a gun to a boxing match. Either way, losing doesn’t make him any less tough.

It’s not like Teridax just summoned them out of nowhere; Icarax brought the Manas in the first place, and should have had full control over them.

No, he attacked with everything in his power once Icarax was tired.

Icarax and Teridax have the same powerset. Teridax was just more efficient with it.


Point being, the fact he used the manas at all in the fight is what is fighting dirty no matter who brought them. Yes he was tired but only attacked after he was also surrounded by Manas. I was using the gun reference when talking about the Manas, I know every Makuta has the same powers and energy level, Icarax didn’t turn them against Teridax because he was fighting him in a duel and it would be an empty achievement. Just think about any duel or MMA match or fight in history, if your opponent shows up and your friends are with you to watch the fight and he pays them all to attack you during your fight is that a fair fight? No.

No, this is different. Rahi/insect control is one of the abilities of a makuta, so I think Teridax using that power is completely fair play. Example would be having a duel with a toa of iron in a metal arena, and getting upset when the toa uses the arena to beat you.

A fight starts as soon as it’s organized. Studying your opponent, and picking a good arena is all part of it. Can’t be upset when someone outplayed you with the mind.


But it is different, I have the ability to poke someone in the eyes in a fight but is that fair? No, just because it’s an ability doesn’t make it the fair, this was a fight between them, one on one, involving an army of Rahi in the fight just shows Teridax is a coward who doesn’t want to get his hands dirty and using an army of the most powerful Rahi in your duel is a cheap move, Icarax could have easily done the same but continued to use his weapon the entire fight because it’s what a good fair fight between warriors would entail. Greg even stated Icarax is the better fighter but Teridax is more cunning, cunning doesn’t mean fair. If they fought in a fair fight with Teridax also just using a weapon he would lose, but since the writer wanted to show intelligence is just as good as skill, he allowed the fight to include powers that would enable Teridax to win, but it was still cheating. He had the chance to use a weapon to prove his skills but instead he chose the crabs lol

Yes, it would be fair if you agreed to allow it.

This is a world where beings have supernatural powers, I don’t think rahi hold a position separate from other elements or powers. Once again, if this had been a fight in a cave, and Teridax brought the roof down on top of Icarax, no one would care (at least to this extent) As far as I know, they didn’t agree to just melee combat, and all powers were legal. You can’t complain about that.

They’re not exactly good warriors in that sense. And Icarax being able to do the same, but just not thinking about it could relate to any use of powers. It’s the same for melee combat. If Icarax used a winning move with his weapon, we can assume Teridax could’ve done the same, but Icarax’s experience in melee combat gave him the foresight to use it first, but you know, that’s just called skill.

And makuta aren’t fair.

This would be illogical. Imagine a boxing match where no one uses their legs. Why would you take out half of the skills on display?

Yes, this is a relevant lesson true to life, of course it would work in the Bionicle universe.

How is it cheating if there were no rules against it? Underhanded, debatable. Cheating, no


What, were the Manas just there for Icarax’s emotional support as he destroyed village after village?

Teridax literally used Icarax’s own power against him that he was using just moments before. That’s like saying it’s unfair to take a mugger’s weapon when they’re trying to take your wallet.


One important thing to remember is that Teridax let Icarax hammer on him for a good long while until he was simply too exhausted to continue the fight, and then Teridax cut off all other point of escape and thoroughly reminded Icarax who the leader of the brotherhood really was.

Icarax was the better fighter, but Teridax was more cunning. He allowed Icarax to pound him for hours on end, until the rebel’s energies were almost exhausted. Then Teridax exerted the smallest amount of his will and turned the Manas against Icarax. Once he was surrounded, Teridax used every power at his command to defeat… no, demolish… no, perhaps humiliate would be a better word… Icarax.

Icarax was an incredible Makuta. He had the skill and battle prowess to outclass some of the best and most competent fighters among the organization. But he had an incredible disregard for any extra planning or schemes beyond his field of vision, and Teridax was not only smarter, but all around a better Makuta.

Let me put it in proper perspective: Icarax was more than a match for some of the Brotherhood of Makuta’s best members, some of which went up against entire armies. Teridax walked off an assault of over 100,000 violent sea creatures at the command of the Barraki. And Teridax allowed Icarax to ‘pound him for hours on end’ only to immediately turn around and effortlessly humiliate him.

Underhanded? Oh yeah. Unfair? Maybe. Teridax didn’t really use the Manas as anything other than a wall. And even if he did use the Manas as an aggressive force, he allowed Icarax to have full command of the duel - and beat him up as well - for hours. Had Icarax been any amount capable of defeating Teridax in a fair fight he would have done so then, but he couldn’t, because he wasn’t up against a brutish combatant much akin to himself - he was up against Teridax.

And with Teridax, there is only one outcome.


The Maxilos body was trashed beyond repair, and Teridax only escaped in Antidermis form.

Your definition of “walked off” is a little different from mine. Also he technically floated off.


Everyone here makes valid points which I can agree with a few of them, I felt I made pretty reasonable points that in most situations people would agree with but because EVERYONE LOVES TERIDAX :roll_eyes: and he can never be the weaker one because he’s Teridax I am automatically wrong by default, so let’s agree to disagree since I am greatly outnumbered in the battle for characters. It’s me vs everyone who loves Teridax. So alot of people. Sheesh, I can’t even make a post about Icarax without someone mentioning Teridax. It happens every single time lol.

I don’t even care which Makuta is better at this point, but this is such a massive, sweeping generalization. No, I wouldn’t agree with your points outside of this context. At no point would I ever agree with the claim that reusing your opponent’s moves in a fight is somehow “dirty”.

People aren’t disagreeing with you because Teridax is some kind of hero (if anything, this fight is the reason people think Teridax is so awesome in the first place), it’s because your arguments are completely ignorant of any kind of fighting strategy. You would be hard pressed to find any kind of combat expert (or even any competitive person) who would say “Mental strength has nothing to do with competition, and you should adjust your strategy to maximize your opponent’s effectiveness against you”.

If you prefer Icarax over Teridax, that’s fine, but there’s a huge difference between “Icarax would win in pure physical combat” (which is probably true) and “Teridax is a filthy coward for not drunkenly stumbling into Icarax’s predictable strategy”.

And the person who brought up Teridax was wrong to do so for the same reason that I disagree with your points; Icarax’s loss doesn’t reflect upon his impressive physicality that you originally mentioned, since the fight was more than pure combat.

At the end of the day, I think this argument went off the rails a little; I’m not trying to say that Teridax is somehow tougher or stronger than Icarax. The only part of your original reply that I disagree with is your claim that Teridax’s win was somehow “dirty” or undeserved.


Let’s say this is true, and that did make points people would agree with in most situations… We aren’t dealing with multiple situations, in fact we are dealing with exactly one.

Yes, because Teridax literally won this fight. I can’t imagine a situation where the outcome wouldn’t be similar to this, no matter the circumstances. Trying to prove your character is stronger than Teridax is obviously going to be a mistake. He lost like two* times in his 100,000 year life.

*citation needed