(Insanity of Karzahni) And (the elemental gods, thoughts) [Worldbuilding][Pitch]

I would like to address two subjects:

  1. Why did Karzahni go insane?
  2. Concerning the elemental gods.

1: Why did Karzahni go insane?

I see his power of seeing alternate futures as projections of the possible future based on the information he has, much like how we make weather models. He was more than capable of controlling his powers until one fateful day that all changed. Ekimu, upon giving the Matoran sentience, consequently caused the possibilities of alternate futures to be nearly endless. Karzahni, unable to process all the information, slowly began to lose his mind. He started to lash out and cause destruction upon the island. Ekimu and Makuta, seeing the madness that had overtaken their brother, designed a place to restrain him and keep him safe with the intention of releasing him after they found a way to restore him.

Following these events, the two brothers looked to the island and found the Matoran fighting and killing for resources. Makuta came to the conclusion that sentience was a curse and went out to end their misery. Ekimu pleaded with his brother and Makuta did not kill them but instead they created guardians to watch over them and agreed not to give any other creatures, besides these, sentience.

All was well until the devices of Karzahni began to play out. A seventh tribe appeared to the west and they migrated to the island. The unguilded tribe began to kill the other Matoran for being different and the other tribes retaliated. The guardians stepped in and drove off the mysterious tribe but it was too late, the damage had been done. Makuta had witnessed the happenings and believed Ekimu had broken their agreement. He then proceeded to go and carry out the task he had set out to do before but was confronted by Ekimu. The brothers battled upon the island shaking its very foundations. The guardians seeing the brothers were going to destroy the island in their battle, decided that they had to stop them and did so.

During the battle between the two brothers, Karzahni’s “prison” had collapsed into the sea and took water. The prison, designed to keep Karzahni alive, adapted him to survive the conditions. His bonds remained unbroken in the fall however, so he is only able to reach out with his mind…


2: Concerning the elemental gods.

I personally still believe the elemental gods should come before the Matoran.
Having Makuta mad at Ekimu for giving sentience to the Matoran seems to be directly undermined by the idea of them creating even more powerful god like beings with sentience right after. The elemental gods are over qualified and powered to fill the position of being guardians. The role could just as easily be filled by beings less powerful than the Toa and would be more likely to be made, due to their inability to overthrow the brothers.
Having the elemental gods around before the Matoran allows them to be directly connected to the management of their respective elements in the creation of the island and could be seen as a higher tier of being that the brothers are fine with having sentience. This also allows us to already have the Toas’ elemental source without it sounding too contrived.
We could also have the elemental gods be separate from the creations of the brothers. They could be life forces captured by the brothers to help them create the island and or Matoran.


Thoughts, ideas, comments, and constructive criticism welcome.

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I want to buy that…

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  1. Karzahni’s madness makes sense, so I don’t see too much of a problem with it.
  2. I absolutely want the Elemental Gods (Nuva) to be made before the Matoran, based on what you said. If Makuta hated the idea of the Matoran becoming sentient, there is absolutely no way he would EVER agree to having powerful guardians created with sentience (unless Ekimu does it secretly behind Makuta’s back, which could spark the War of the Brothers, nixing the purpose of the Lightning Tribe).
    The only way it makes sense is this: the Nuva are created sentient, but their unique nature prevents them from ever harming the Brothers or the physical world, while the Brothers are capable of harming them. The Matoran are created, but Makuta is against granting sentience to Matoran due to their nature (they are capable of harming the Brothers, albeit with little to no effect). The Nuva are able to channel their power into hosts (turning Matoran into Toa), which allows the Brothers to be defeated with relative difficulty. This could prompt the Brothers to create massive guardians as a countermeasure, based on what Karzahni sees in his visions, but the Toa still win.

That’s just how it makes sense to me, anyway.

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Your points about the Elemental Gods are the exact thoughts I have on them. Their original purpose should be to keep balance on the island by regulating the elemental energies that make it up. When a new sentient species is made, they continue to keep balance and thus protect them (and all island life) as a result.

Makuta would be fine with their sentience, since they are made to be a higher power and have an actual purpose (and there are only 6 of them). Matoran, on the other hand, are more of a whim. They are much weaker, and thus shouldn’t be burdened with sentience.

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Thank you, that is quite the compliment.


@Bokarda and @UltimateMustacheX, I 100% agree with you guys.

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One idea I was playing around with was that the Elemental Gods were never meant to have sentience at all, but Ekimu secretly gave them the ability behind Makuta’s back to learn to see if they would. They did, but they sympathized and emphasized with the Matoran, which led to the Brothers’ undoing.

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That makes more sense, but I’ve thought of a problem: why would the Brothers create beings that are specifically created to watch over the Matoran if the Matoran pose absolutely no threat to them? Makuta views the Matoran as if they’re practically nothing significant, so why would he even want guardian spirits?

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That could work but now we are using the explanation of Ekimu granting sentience twice, the second notably after their agreement. The idea therefore seems a little redundant/unoriginal and out of character for Ekimu (by which I mean his loyalty to his brothers).


I personally imagined that the brothers both loved the Matoran, prizing them above all their other creations.
Ekimu wanted to give them sentience so they could also create things like he could.
Makuta wanted to keep them out of harm’s way by giving them a system to follow.

When Ekimu granted them sentience, they no longer had to follow Makuta’s system and began to slowly make bad choices. Eventually, the Matoran were fighting and killing each other. Makuta seeing all their pain and “corrupted” state, thought the best thing to do was to end their misery. Ekimu pleaded with Makuta not to kill them but to help him create/assign beings to guide them.
However in this scenario, Makuta would never agree to give the Nuva sentience and Ekimu would be bound under oath not to.

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The only possible way that this could work (and this is going to be a bit of a stretch) is if Ekimu implants into the minds of the Nuva to instinctively NEVER reveal their sentience to Makuta, EVER.
While Makuta is present, they pretend they are fully controlled by the Mask of Control. When Makuta is absent, they are allowed to confide in Ekimu about how they feel and what they want to do, after which Ekimu guides them.

This is the only way that would ever work.

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I don’t believe Ekimu would do this though since he made an agreement with Makuta that he wouldn’t.
Just another reason why it works better to have the Nuva already in existence.

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Y’all are assuming a lot on behalf of Ekimu’s character. He has his own desires, wants and means. Just because he agreed to something with Makuta doesn’t necessarily mean he’d honor it. Ekimu isn’t the “good” Brother, he’s just a Brother. None of the Brothers would be what you would call “good”. They’re all their own people/characters.

This is an interesting take; it’s not what we’ve had in mind previously, but it’s really interesting.

Makuta in the current canon views the Matoran with the same weight that we view artificial life today. He thinks bestowing “life” is cruel, but does not view the creations on the same level as himself. It’s almost like a self-aware Sims game, something to erase and start over.

The Nuva were originally the compromise to keep the Matoran in check as well as be “anchors” for the elements. They were never meant to turn against the Brothers, but they did, because life always overthrows.

Really, the common theme among the Brothers are all about how their values get away from them - and their Legendary Masks end up corrupting/enhancing those desires. Karzahni wants knowledge, and his Mask that he creates to give him that unlimited knowledge drives him insane. Makuta wants control, and his Mask is subtler, but it does fuel his desire as well as exhibit control (we talked on Brainstorm how it’s like the One Ring). Ekimu’s is even more subtler than the other two - he needs to create at all costs, and life is the greatest thing he can create, so life always finds a way into his creations.

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Ekimu may not be good but I never imagined him so bluntly dishonest.
In addition, I don’t think Ekimu granting sentience to any beings would subdue his creative drive. Once he grants it, that’s it, nothing is gained for him. He could do many other things that are more rewarding, so why would he risk a fight with Makuta by breaking their agreement?

Makuta’s love for the Matoran could just be as in a prized possession. Once it has been altered the value for him is no longer there.

Were the elements created at that moment? If not shouldn’t the anchors have been around since the beginning of the island?
I thought the Nuva were suppose to protect the Matoran and only turned on the brothers when their fight threatened to destroy the entire island, not because life overthrows?
(I have never heard the term “life overthrows” before. What exactly is meant by it?)

As I understand it then, the masks are the way the brothers devised to channel their powers to be concentrated but consequently they became overwhelmed and consumed by them? I have no problems with that and honestly really like it.

The problem I see is: why would Ekimu spite his brother and give sentience to another species when he could just as easily create other creatures without it? Life doesn’t have to have sentience.

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Sure. We did.

Everything corrupts if you let it drive you. A thirst for knowledge, a thirst for order, even a thirst for creativity. All of the Brothers end up being corrupted by what they wanted most.

He’s driven by the desire to create, and ultimately, the biggest challenge for someone in his field is to create truly sentient life.

(They created the Rahi and plantlife prior, those aren’t his ultimate goal).

Your first statement is correct, but they aren’t mutually exclusive. The extra backstory that we’ve been thinking about that was propositioned by the fans for a while is that the three Brothers overthrew their father, Mata Nui, who created them. Makuta fears that they’ll suffer the same fate if they too create sentient life - which eventually does happen. The created turn against their creators.

Again, they’ve already done that: the Rahi and plantlife are technically “life”, but they aren’t sentient life - which is what I meant when I said “life” previously. Ekimu is driven by a creative passion that wants to achieve the ultimate creation - fully sentient life. I would think we would imply that the possibility to rebel against them would be part of true sentience - the choice to reject implies a free will and a fully conscious mind to choose.

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I think this description of Ekimu’s personality helps reason why he does the things he does, and it makes it even more sense when you realize he is not necessarily benevolent (especially when including his usurpation of Mata Nui). This actually makes his aesthetic much more interesting than if he were benevolent.

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Oh, so it is a progression? That makes sense.
Ekimu is slowly pushing his limits starting small and working his way up. As he creates, he develops an addiction and god complex. He blows off his brother’s warnings because of said complex and creates sentient life. He then uses his agreement with Makuta as an excuse to create the Nuva, his ultimate creations.
I think I could get behind that.

I see, that makes much more sense.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify, I feel this was very informative.


Could the Nuva have existed before but just as simple energies to anchor the island? Later then, Ekimu could empower them and grant them sentience to become the elemental gods.
It would allow the island to already have the elements anchored but still have the Nuva become the gods after the Matoran have sentience.

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The way I understand sentience (at least in the Brickonicle world) is that the potential resides within every living thing and spirit, or even the aspects of the natural world (Nuva). All that is needed is a divine spark.

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Dude, way to bring my design to life! I love it!

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Glad you like it, I tried to stay as true to your amazing design as possible.

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I think what makes the Elemental Gods (I’m not sure if we’re calling them Nuva) “themselves” is the added benefit of sentience - all of the actual elemental “energy” existed when the island was created, but they’re just that, elements. The concept of having an “anchor” for the elements only really exists for the Matron, because they need anchors to have access to the elements.

He’s more like an artist, right? But one who’s willing to play with fire, even if it ends up burning him alive. It doesn’t make him bad, but it doesn’t make him all that good either.

Right! Except I don’t know that the Nuva would be his ultimate creations, I think he would still value the Matoran as such. Actually, I think he would view the Toa as his ultimate creations, as they are the ones that actively “rebel” against him and Makuta. They chose freely and they had the power to carry it out, just like he did initially, so he can be certain they’re at least as sentient as he is.

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Here’s another problem: why would Karzahni create the lightning tribe if it was Ekimu’s Matoran that sparked his insanity? Creating a new, sapient race would cause even more alternate futures, worsening Karzahni’s condition.

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