Is Bionicle a good Story?

[LegoDavid]

@Toa-of-Snow

I’m going to take this a step further and say without any consistent medium period. There are plenty of popular and successful series based on novels and written forms. Bionicle’s issue isn’t the lack of a visual medium, it’s the lack of any medium that covers the whole story. Visual would certainly help, but I don’t think it’s a complete deal-breaker.

The fact that it’s novels were large-print chapter books published every few months by scholastic, rather than being the kind of thing you’d see on the shelf five or more years later, probably has something to do with it too. If all the books of a given year were condensed into a big thick novel, and given a cover/font size treatment to look more mature, I think many casual readers would struggle to tell they were children’s books. It almost never spoke down to the audience.

I do not doubt the possibility of Bionicle being more successful had the story been told exclusively through books, but I would still question that decision when your main target audience are 7-10 year old kids. We all know the sad reality that reading is no longer as popular as it used to be, especially among kids, and when your story is being told by a toy company’s who main interest is to sell toys to kids, having books be the main medium would kind of go against their interests. If did really want Bionicle to be only told exclusively through books though, I’d say the target audience should skew more towards teens and young adults instead.

@thewimpykid

The reason Lego did that was to make Bionicle more accessible. They made Bionicle content for a variety of mediums. There were the toys themselves, the comics, the video games, the books, and the movies. If you’re a book fan, then there’s something to appeal to you. If you’re a gamer, then there’s something for you though most of the games were noncanon

I guess that is a fair point, but keep in mind who the main target audience is. If you’re skewing towards kids, your story should told through the most accessible medium to them, in this case, a TV Show (which has worked perfectly fine for Ninjago)., or if that wasn’t possible, at least by consistently having a Direct-to-video movie for each year’s story.
I don’t personally know that many kids would would have a preference towards books rather than something visual like a Movie or TV Show, so that is something we should consider.

[thewimpykid]

@LegoDavid

at least by consistently having a Direct-to-video movie for each year’s story.

That’s exactly what they tried from 2003 onward. But apparently the Miramax trilogy as a whole wasn’t a huge money spinner, so the producers were reluctant to try again.

@LegoDavid

I don’t personally know that many kids would would have a preference towards books rather than something visual like a Movie or TV Show, so that is something we should consider.

I mean, when I was a kid, I liked reading. Granted, it wasn’t always easy for my parents to get me reading new books, but I did get into Bionicle, and Harry Potter, and Spiderwick Chronicles, and the Bone graphic novels, and Percy Jackson, and Diary Of A Wimpy Kid, among others. Then again, I’m a kid of the 2000s.

[LegoDavid]

@thewimpykid

That’s exactly what they tried from 2003 onward. But apparently the Miramax trilogy as a whole wasn’t a huge money spinner, so the producers were reluctant to try again.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t Mask of Light actually one of the best selling Direct-to-Video movies of 2003? I can’t speak for the other movies in the trilogy, but as far as I know, MoL at least was a pretty decent success.

@thewimpykid

I mean, when I was a kid, I liked reading. Granted, it wasn’t always easy for my parents to get me reading new books, but I did get into Bionicle, and Harry Potter, and Spiderwick Chronicles, and the Bone graphic novels, and Percy Jackson, and Diary Of A Wimpy Kid, among others. Then again, I’m a kid of the 2000s.

I am not saying kids aren’t reading at all nowdays, (thought the decline in book sales has been a pretty relevant issue for the past few years) but I don’t believe books are the best medium for a company to sell toys. If the books don’t even have illusions or something visual about them, how are you even supposed to get kids to care about buying toys?

[Toa-of-Snow]

@LegoDavid

I do not doubt the possibility of Bionicle being more successful had the story been told exclusively through books, but I would still question that decision when your main target audience are 7-10 year old kids. We all know the sad reality that reading is no longer as popular as it used to be, especially among kids, and when your story is being told by a toy company’s who main interest is to sell toys to kids, having books be the main medium would kind of go against their interests. If did really want Bionicle to be only told exclusively through books though, I’d say the target audience should skew more towards teens and young adults instead.

@thewimpykid

I mean, when I was a kid, I liked reading. Granted, it wasn’t always easy for my parents to get me reading new books, but I did get into Bionicle, and Harry Potter, and Spiderwick Chronicles, and the Bone graphic novels, and Percy Jackson, and Diary Of A Wimpy Kid, among others. Then again, I’m a kid of the 2000s.

While there are some significant examples out there which more than manage to defy this trend, speaking much more broadly I’d have to agree with LegoDavid - if you’re marketing to kids, your odds will be better with TV or movies than with books. That said, my original point wasn’t about what would have been viable for Bionicle during its lifespan, but what would make it more accessible to pop culture fans now. Having all the story content in novel form, and having those novels be more accessible to older fans, would have impacted that significantly, I feel.

@LegoDavid

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t Mask of Light actually one of the best selling Direct-to-Video movies of 2003? I can’t speak for the other movies in the trilogy, but as far as I know, MoL at least was a pretty decent success.

As far as Direct-to-Video goes MoL did very well - well enough that LoMN nearly went cinematic, I believe I’ve read before (either Faber or Greg said something about that). And the directors and producer have said that the plan was never to make a trilogy - each film began production only after Lego saw how the previous one performed - so that suggests the movies did well for what they were, financially speaking.

When you take a step back and remember they were made in under a year each, it’s easy to be a bit more forgiving on some of the flaws they had and I think they did a respectable job. That still doesn’t make them good examples of Bionicle’s finer moments, though.

[thewimpykid]

@LegoDavid

wasn’t Mask of Light actually one of the best selling Direct-to-Video movies of 2003?

Fair enough: I’m just saying that the three movies as a whole weren’t successful enough to warrant a fourth (at least, until 2009).

@LegoDavid

(thought the decline in book sales has been a pretty relevant issue for the past few years)

Yeah no I totally agree with you there.

@thewimpykid

when I think about it, I don’t hear that many people say that they like reading in their spare time.

@Toa-of-Snow

well enough that LoMN nearly went cinematic, I believe I’ve read before

IIRC, TTV made a video compiling the biggest Bionicle letdowns, and one of those letdowns was LOMN not getting a theatrical release. But if it it, I’m afraid it wouldn’t have gone over very well. The critics would’ve torn it apart, and the box-office numbers wouldn’t be pretty.

[MooCowsRock]

I say BIONICLE isn’t just a good story, it’s a great story. I’ve thought long and hard about various aspects of it in recent years, and it continually remains one of the most comprehensive and exciting stories I’ve experienced.

One of the greatest attributes of the story was its tendency not to shy away from serious problems and serious stakes. It wasn’t just fluff or a shallow action flick. 2004 and 2006 are both great example years for this. The Toa Metru had some serious teamwork issues, and Vakama’s crippling self-doubt humanized him beyond your ordinary “save the world” hero (not that saving the world is bad, but if that’s the sum total of the character’s personality… that’s not a character). In 2006, the Piraka were legitimately savage villains that drove the story relentlessly. They weren’t even dark for the sake of being dark (as with many of the villains–another general aspect I love about BIONICLE), and their “team” dynamics are among the most unique antagonist interactions I’ve ever seen.

BIONICLE villains are actually consistently amazing to me due to their varied motives, dynamics, and methods, but that’s such a massive topic for me that I won’t bother opening it further.

Another interesting aspect that I haven’t thought much on is BIONICLE’s near-seamless multi-faceted approach to the story. We got 2001 through Takua’s eyes and the Toa’s eyes; we got many later years from the perspectives of the main characters, but also from those of side characters through serials. It’s an approach I haven’t really seen in taken to any other story, and is uniquely suited and enhanced by BIONICLE because it was capable of leveraging so much media. It really built the depth of the world, even to experience a year’s story in a different way from its canonical transpiration–VNOG, for instance, puts a new and deepening spin on Voya Nui.

Now, short answer questions:

@Toa-of-Snow

Were some years stronger than others?

Yes. I think 2008, 2006, and 2001 were the strongest years storywise (in that order, strongest to less strong), and 2009 and 2005 were the weakest (2009 being weaker). 2009 in particular had a boatload of potential that was never really capitalized on, in addition to throwing the story into a different location that didn’t exactly fit tonally with the preceding eight years. 2008, meanwhile, followed very well on the previous two years and presented a dramatic “conclusion” to the large-scope Ignika arc.

@Toa-of-Snow

What about the different media formats (books vs movies)?

I tend to prefer the books over the movies, but the writing is objectively pretty generic. Again, though, I think the use of different formats enhanced the overall story.

@Toa-of-Snow

What, if anything, was fantastic, and what wasn’t?

Most of the villains were fantastic. The handling of a proliferation of characters without most of them becoming stale or same-y was fantastic. The heroes were sometimes less interesting, though, and various digressions (2005, Empire of the Skrall, etc.) distracted from the overall story.

@Toa-of-Snow

Is there anything about story generally that can be learnt from a serious Bionicle analysis, or was it just an effective way of selling toys at the end of the day?

I mean, yeah, it was effective marketing. But I think the merits of the story stand for themselves, too. The balance of multitudinous viewpoints and characters, the structure of the world, and the buildup to the ultimate victory of Teridax at the end of 2008 are all well-executed and exhibit interesting storytelling methods that can be studied and learned from, I’d say.

[LegoDavid]

@thewimpykid

Fair enough: I’m just saying that the three movies as a whole weren’t successful enough to warrant a fourth (at least, until 2009).

You know, I will always question the decision of putting out another Bionicle DVD movie so late into the series run, at a time when the people working on it probably already knew about the inevitable incoming cancellation. Wouldn’t Hero Factory have already been in development during that time as well? Giving another movie to 2009 instead of something like 2007 or 2008 is really mind boggling to me. I am pretty sure the reason TLR got made wasn’t because sales were good enough to warrant another movie (quite contrary) but thinking the soft reboot approach with another movie will get a new group of fans interested in the series. Well… That didn’t work out, and the theme got cancelled the following year.

@thewimpykid

IIRC, TTV made a video compiling the biggest Bionicle letdowns, and one of those letdowns was LOMN not getting a theatrical release. But if it it, I’m afraid it wouldn’t have gone over very well. The critics would’ve torn it apart, and the box-office numbers wouldn’t be pretty.

Well, keep in mind that first and foremost, LEGO made those movies in order to sell toys. They took the same approach with the LEGO Ninjago Movie, and while the box office numbers were low and critics were unimpressed, Ninjago still become the best selling LEGO theme of 2017. So as far as I am concerned, the theatrical movie approach works well as a commercial at least.
So LoMN getting a theatrical release wouldn’t have been successful on its own, but it would have certainly given Bionicle a pretty good popularity boost.

[Toa-of-Snow]

@LegoDavid

Wouldn’t Hero Factory have already been in development during that time as well?

Given that the HF TV show was animated by Threshold as well, I’ve often thought that maybe this was exactly the reason TLR still got made. It was the constraction-figure-animation proof-of-concept, maybe?

[Ignition]

Well, Greg is a low quality writer, and if you ask about how well the story is written, obviously it’s pretty bad. Asking to not rate creativity is pretty pointless, though, because it’s part of writer’s work, only rating plot is like an English exam that only rates your calligraphy, not what you wrote.

The good things in Bionicle are its originality (not like they’re novel, but pretty creative), and the amount of sheer work they put into world building. There may be plot holes everywhere, but the amount of detailed lore we got also is very cool.

[Seuss]

I read bonkle books as a kid so therefore they must be good

[Enbeanie]

well bionicle encyclopedia was a thrilling read
but out of most bionicle books i’ve read, sometimes the pacing is a little too quick for my taste. granted, the origin of zork is stupidly fast paced as well.
though the bionicle movies are entertaining. they aren’t masterpieces, like cars 2 or something, but they’re pretty amusing to watch. bionicle isn’t the best story, but it certainly isn’t the worst.

[ToaZaz]

You’re gonna love the later books, because they just get better from there. Adventures #10 Time Trap is often regarded as the best of all the Bionicle books (it’s Greg’s favorite), but all the Legends books are also quite strong: the stakes and intensity are elevated from the earlier years, and a good number of emotional and character-building moments.

IMO newcomers to Bionicle who don’t yet understand the richness of the universe, should read (part of) Bionicle: World. It’s definitely one of the best books, and really fascinating. But if you’re already a fan, don’t read it until after you’ve read Legends #6 and #7, otherwise it will spoil too much.

[dreepYeets]

The story exists because of the Lego sets. Is it good enough to stand up on its own? I don’t think so. There’s no way I would care about the story if I didn’t love the toys. And I think it’s safe to assume pretty much everyone here owns (or has at some point owned) Bionicle sets.

In terms of what’s actually wrong with the story, there’s a lot to talk about, given how much Bionicle content there is, but for me, there are two main issues. 1) There are so many generic hero characters distinguished by minor differences. Those differences that can usually be summed up with a single adjective. 2) The story relies too heavily on magical plot devices with extremely vague rules/limitations.

That said, I think it’s kind of unfair to compare it to other book series or movie franchises because Bionicle is so fundamentally different in terms of both it’s goal and it’s process (Lego makes sets. Greg et al. write a story around those sets). I remember reading a quote from some film critic (might’ve been Roger Ebert) saying that he judges a movie by considering “What is the movie’s goal?” and “How well does it succeed at that goal?”

The cynical way of looking at Bionicle is “The story exists to sell toys.” And yeah, that’s true, but I think it’s a bit more fair to say the goal of the story is to make the sets more interesting. And on the front, I’d say it absolutely succeeds.

One other thing I wanted to say. The sheer quantity of world building doesn’t equate to a better story. Which would you consider the better story: Schindler’s List or the history textbook you had to read in high school? Of course, good world building can absolutely make a story feel more vibrant and real. But in most instances, a few good details is better than an in-depth history of every location.

Also, I want to add something positive about the Bionicle story. For me, the most interesting aspect is that it all happens (mostly) inside the body of a giant robot. Like, the idea of these heroes being like his immune system fighting off an evil infection is really cool to me. And I like to think about how all the different parts of the world fit into this giant being’s anatomy and physiology.

[Marzipancutter]

Let’s face it, the Bionicle Plotline is Anime af.
A bit sloppy in some regards, but overall such a fun ride.
Maybe a little less philosophical pretentiousness, but it’s debatable whether that’s a bad thing.

[anon61908668]

I think there’s a lot of really good stuff about it, but I’m not talking about the plot specifically. Although the plot can be good, and is really interesting especially for what could have just been a simple toy line story (cough G2), I think there are some aspects about it that are just as good, or even better, than some of the best fiction.

One thing is the world. It has such great world-building. There are just so many cool species/groups/factions, like the Bohrok/Bohrok-Kal/Bahrag, Rahkshi, Makuta (both the original and the species), Toa, Visorak, all the different Rahi, Piraka, Barraki…it just goes on. It rivals something like Mass Effect to me, but personally I find it even more interesting.

Then there are the locations, which add even more to it. Mata Nui and Metru Nui especially are some of the best locations in fiction imo. They’re both places I’d actually want to visit. They’re both really dynamic, with many different regions, and just overall really interesting visual styles.

And, there are the characters. Bionicle has so many characters, not just by toy standards, but compared to fiction in general. Yet somehow, pretty much all of them have unique personalities. I do feel like almost every character I can think of ways how they’re different from others in their group. I think it’s really impressive that there are this many characters yet pretty much all of them are distinct from each other.

I don’t think it’s a perfect story. The problem with so many characters is that many of them don’t get time to develop. I think Greg also had a tendency to kill off characters especially in the story serials a little too casually, which adds to the problem of these characters not having enough development in the first place before they’re killed off.

I also feel like the story gets messier with these serials, there’s just so much going on with so many plot threads and it gets way too confusing. I also think as the story moved away from Mata Nui/Metru Nui, world-building kind of went out the window. Voya Nui/Mahri Nui/Karda Nui didn’t feel as real as those first locations to me, it felt like the plot was just rushing along without really spending time in these worlds, something that got even worse when the books ended and it was just story serials. I do think Greg writes really entertaining character interactions, I just think it’s best when there’s a balance between the character dialogue/plot movement and also taking some time to explore the world. Maybe maps/video games can help with this.

Overall, yes, I think it’s a good story, but I’d say it’s more the world-building and characters which are really good, not necessarily the story itself imo. The story itself I think is a little messy, but the world-building and characters more than make up for it imo.

[Marzipancutter]

Good Take. Regarding good stuff about the worldbuilding, I want to add how versatile the power system is. It is well-defined enough to give everyone clearly defined abilities, but variable enough so that each character gets to have their own gimmick. And they get to stack these on top of more general (mostly elemental) powers, so they aren’t overreliant on their gimmicks either.

And I do have to say that usually, these powers do get used in interesting way to problem solve, so I don’t feel like they just totally wasted this potential in the fights, unless it’s a Makuta.

[TheShadowedOne1]

Yes.

Otherwise, I wouldn’t be here. The G1 mythology is so rich in my opinion that it could have gone on for decades.

[Ray7]

I think “Messy” is probably the word I would use for my impression of it. I don’t exactly have an encyclopedic knowledge of all the media, but the further I read on in the series the more it seemed to… wander a little bit?
But what I love about it is that it is so out there, and I really admire the writing chops it takes to take “dinosaur that ages anything it touches an unimaginable amount of time” and the write it into the same story as “Gaseous demon lord orchestrating the takeover of god.” and “mutant warlords trapped in hell chasing after a sentient mcguffin that could decide to end the universe at any second.”
The more I read into the story and world building, the more it sounded to me like Farshtey just had fun writing all this crazy stuff that exists, and like I said it does makes it feel messy - but more a fun kind of messy like a ballpit, rather than the headache inducing sort of messy like a dirty kitchen.

[anon61908668]

True, the story could get pretty out there, which I’d much rather have than something that felt safe/predictable.

I guess I got kind of “spoiled” by how Bionicle did things though, which was creating sets to show how characters looked like in detail, and especially with Mata/Metru Nui having a bunch of video games, maps, animations, etc, to really help visualize the setting. By the time it got to the story serials I guess it felt a little jarring to me to have all these characters without set forms so you don’t have that detailed idea of how they look, or any setting visuals so it felt harder to visualize the world the story was taking place in.

I do think Greg took the story to interesting places (though he had a tendency to kill off characters a little too casually for me), I guess I just also wanted that other visual piece that had come with the stuff outside the story earlier.

[Ray7]

Oh yea, its outlandishness actually reminds a bit of One Piece funnily enough. Although there’s a part of me that really wants an intimate story of the Toa mata first getting to know and trust each other.
I know a lot of Bionicle’s appeal is its Shonen-like adventure across worlds, but the original atmosphere it had when it first launched where there was so much mystery, I do kind of miss that. Before you knew that the mysterious metal plates underground were parts of a giant robot’s face.

Also, let’s talk about how satisfying it is for there to be a trillion feet tall robot rise out of the ocean. The one thing I feel like was gotten right in this whole saga is mata nui standing up. Part of me wants that to have been the ending to Mask of life, actually. Like do you have any idea how many kid’s minds would be blown in a theater by that?