Revelations in the Element IDs of early BIONICLE

Thank you very much. I really can’t take credit for the research since it’s basically all Aanchir’s, I only visualized it and applied some theory.

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I included the Power Pack, Bohrok Va Feet, and Nuparu for some additional context.

Some notes:

  • The Tohunga parts were definitely made for McDonalds initially, as evident by their names: MCDONALD HEAD, MCDONALD ARM, MCDONALDS LAUNCHDEVICE, MCDONALD BODY, MCDONALD FOOT.
  • There is a 7th bamboo disk: 4157572 - DECORATED DISC, MCD: NO. 7. This does not follow the naming pattern of the other six, such as DEC. DISC, MCD., KAKAMA.
  • The first Bohrok parts come between the Chrome Hau and the PowerPack CD (denoted here as “CD”).
  • The throwing arms are repeated.
  • A second set of brown feet come a couple thousand IDs after the other three Va feet.

(This latter half might get a bit crunchy
) Now, before I get into the rest, I want to introduce another concept–“Product versions”. Some of these are listed on Customer Service (if you open up the inspector). Each “product version” has its own piece count, and usually use Element IDs (Customer Service have a few listings using the set numbers, but I think those are just generic entries for the set.)
As an example; 8535 Lewa:
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When looking at the Toa Mata, most have four listed on Customer service - these appear to be the IN(ternational) and AM(erican) versions, as well as their respective versions with the promo CDs, which have their piece count upped by one. HOWEVER, the non-CD versions have signficantly lower IDs, which is strange, to say the least. Regardless, I will for now assume they are Element IDs.
Note that these are also seperate IDs from that of the bags or labels. Boxturret provided this example from Kopaka:


The “Item:” here is the prod. ver. while the upper ID is the ID of the label.

Now, on with the notes:

  • The bags denote the aforementioned polybags. Also note that they are specifically labelled AM.
  • After the Va parts, we find product versions, which skip the uneven numbers - 4170434, 4170436, 4170438, 4170440, 4170442, 4170444. These come from these polybags, which DO NOT have the McDonalds label on them:
  • Additionally, Customer Service lists 4170443 as a product version of 1392 Kongu. It’s reasonable to assume that the other uneven numbers between there are also packaging versions of these same sets.
  • As far as I can tell (though it’s a bit hard to make out), the above packaging has IDs of 4170453 through 4170457.
  • At 4170590 through 4170594, we get what is titled INSP. MATERIAL [set number] IN. I’m unsure what INSP. MATERIAL is referring to
 The spreadsheet also lists 1393’s INSP at 4170593, duplicating 1391’s
 I assume this is copy error, and was meant to be 4170596 (given that there is also a gap between it and 4170594). Note the “IN” label.
  • Finally, way after Nuparu’s parts, Customer Service lists the product versions 4179159, 4179160, 4179161, 4179164, 4179165, & 4179166.

If anyone still has their polybags lying around, I’d love to hear what IDs they’ve got :slight_smile:

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INSP. MATERIAL could be parts used for inspection by quality control.

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This document is really fascinating to me, and you really went in-depth with your analysis of it!

Recently, I tried creating hypothetical prototypes for the Toa and Matoran based on this list, and had assumed the initial 6 masks were simply placeholders, (After all, why would there be two Kakamas?) I didn’t realize “Pohatu’s” blue mask was actually an Akaku! Maybe they were intentional after all? Although I’m still not sure why Nuju’s mask is among the Toa’s.

I’m curious about what you make of the alternate coloured Turaga staves. At first the placement made me think they were meant for the Matoran, but that wouldn’t actually work with the arm pieces.

Somewhat related to the Matoran parts, I noticed something else that’s easy to overlook:

Bionicle Ids - Master Builder

The parts between 4155823-4144926 correspond to the Master builder set released in 2002, which I seem to remember was intended to release in 2001. Given the number of Rahi that appeared in early years, it would make sense. The Matoran arms seem out of place, but could be leftover from the Mahi and Hikaki, (which both have variants with and without them).

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Good observation about the Master Builder set.

For the Turaga staves, it may be a holdover from an earlier design of the left arm.
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I particularily do think they’re related due to the use of medium lime.

I guess I should bring up that there is more evidence to this:
http://bzpower.info/story.php?ID=277

https://news.lugnet.com/technic/bionicle/?n=75
https://news.lugnet.com/dear-lego/?n=2911
https://news.lugnet.com/technic/bionicle/?n=153
Per the contemporary Lugnet reports, the original international release of 8525 did not simply include the neon yellow/blue Kaukau & Toa-colored Ruru/Matatu in addition - it did not include the neon orange or clear Kaukau at all, NONE of the six Turaga-colored masks, and not the Infected Mask either. As per the BZPower post, this mistake occured due to miscommunication (probably, there were alterations in the plans that caused confusion?). Of course, this was corrected in later releases. The reason this did not affect 8530 released in America is because the American launch was later.

It does seem that the Kaukau of Pohatu and Kopaka were originally going to be different, and like KDNX noted, purple, neon orange, neon green and clear were made alongside the Turaga colors, but they probably had issue trying to find a set of 12 solid-transparent matches. I would guess this is why they took so long on Nuju and Whenua’s colors.
The other transparent colors they’d have to work with at the time were:

  • 42 Tr. Light Blue, but it’s not great having two light blues on the table.
  • 44 Tr. Yellow, but probably they did not want two yellows either.
  • 50 Phos. White (Glow in the Dark), like 04 Kanoka; it’s not ideal because the translucency is very vague, you kinda gotta shine light through it.
  • 109 Black IR, of course they wouldn’t use that because it’s exclusively for IR lenses (like in Power Functions).
  • 113 Tr. Med. Red-Violet (Dark Pink), same as in modern sets.
  • 156 Tr. Deep Blue, used for a watch link; pretty much identical to regular blue so it would never work.
  • 157 Tr. Fluor. Red (Neon Red), like Tahu’s eyes. 157 or 113 would probably be mutually exclusive due to how similar they are.
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@KDNX congratulations on this amazing analysis! It nicely compliments what I have been doing in Rare Kanohi research topic. It is nice seeing multiple people reach same conclusions independently :+1:

You and @Wolk created this insightful chronology of the thought and production process and it gives context to the patterns of the mask frequencies we see in the wild.
If we go back to this picture:


The reason why the Matatu and Ruru are not fully in the updated Turaga colors is clear now - it is because of the late secondary color decision.

Also, and this only occured to me now - the Hau, Pakari and Kakama seem to be Medium Blue in this display. Ithought it was just the lighting, but on the second thought, I think we are looking at those “12 color stage” masks.

Your analysis also answers another question: “Why do we not see the great masks in the remaining two Turaga colors?” The answer is because as you said, the 12 color stage was halted before the ice and earth secondary colors were finalized.

But here is another thought: How do prototype masks play into this? All of the parts discussed here are final molds, but there are many examples of masks in colors whose color was among the last to be decided, in quick prototype form. Dark gray Ruru for example. If they already had many Ruru test runs in different colors, why not just try the final secondary colors on final retail molds instead of going back to 3d print prototyping?
Not to mention that the prototype Toa sets had prototype mold masks, but in the final colors and shape allocations. What I mean by this is that despite what the order of masks in Toa colors here might indicate, I don’t think the mask shapes were ever going to be swapped around between Toa. And there is also concept art supporting this (though chronology alignment of these two might be tricky).

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Personally, I do think it’s just lighting, comparing it to the other Medium Blue in the picture.


Good point.
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What makes me hesitant regarding the late prototype molds is the lack of the transparent Rau. I’m curious if it has an ID. It’s possible? But no way to confirm it at this time. They don’t look 3D-printed though, I suppose?

Looking at my two noble Huna, and comparing it to the violet one:


My blue one is pretty much the same; heck, the mold number is even 1-02.
Looking at my copper one, it is very different on the inside.

  • On the blue one, there are four stumps surrounding the stud attachement, however on the copper one, the bottom one is greatly diminished (barely there at all).
  • The design ID is written below the attachment point, while on the blue one it is to the left, opposite of the mold number.
  • For the copper mask, the mold number (in this case 3 and 01) are instead written with the 3 on the left side, and the 01 on the right.
  • The design & mold numbers are bigger on the copper mask.
  • The copyright mark on the inside of the forehead is lower on the copper mask.
  • The injection mark, found on the front, in the second “mouth-hold” from the top, is recessed on the copper mask, but protruding on the blue one.

All the design work and shaping is the same, as is the code (7-OS). My point being, much like with the basic 3001 system bricks, the masks did see revision under the same design ID


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Interesting. I believe there were some posts somewhere about Huki and Pohatu Kakama having similar discrepancies.
Is it possible that the position in the injection mold and thus the mold number have something to do with these slight changes? Just a thought, no evidence on my side. The answer is likely no, but I wanted to make sure.

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No idea! Definitely needs a bigger sample size for research. I’m not sure what my blue Huna would have originated from, but the copper masks were produced in 2001, later than the power pack. At that point the Bohrok were well on their way.

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I will go through some of my masks to add to the sample size then.

UPDATE: I have already found something. The silver and golden masks found in mask packs of 2002 have an extra 5-digit number in them when compared to their 2001 counterparts.
2001 have - the designer code (3-LT etc.); copyright symbol © ; design ID (identity of mold/shape) and the mold position number (e.g. 2-02).

2002 have - the designer code (3-LT etc.); copyright symbol © ; design ID (identity of mold/shape) and the mold position number (e.g. 2-02); unknown 5-digit number (43095=Hau, 43096=Miru).

Note that this does not correspond to element ID (combination of shape and color), which should be a 7-digit code.

At least in case of Miru, the copyright symbol is sllightly smaller in gold/silver variant and these also lack the line under the chin of the previous iterations I will add pictures later if I get to it).

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Looking at my own collection:

Kakama:

  • Both my gold and dark orange one says 3-02. The dark orange has wedges on the insides of the cheeks and forehead that are not present on the gold one.

Pakari:

  • Light blue 2-01, gold 1-01, orange 2-01. No discernible difference.

Kaukau:

  • Trans-Blue 1-01, Gold 4-01, Silver 1-01. I’d be rather surprised if these were different.

Akaku:

  • Ditto. 3-02 Silver, 2-02 Gold.

Hau:

  • Infected: Text at the bottom ridge, TINY! 4-01.
  • Gold: 4-02. The same text is still present, however there is more text above the attachement point. 43095
 My first thought was 42031 which is the Chrome Hau’s but
 no. My chrome Hau is the same as the infected one; 2-02.

To complete the set, my gold Miru is 3-02. And yes, I see the 43096 too.

:thinking: Is this why we don’t have IDs for them? Because they’re using a new design ID? That’s huge! Why do they do this? I don’t see any on the other 4 though. If it has to do with material, why don’t the copper masks, trans-Ruru, and the neon green Miru use other IDs?

Curious if a comparison between the NA and EU copper masks could bring anything.

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Wait, so the other gold/silver masks outside of Hau and Miru don’t have these extra numbers?

I recall the lines you mention in the Kakama comparison - must be similar difference to the Miru chin line I mentioned.

So the mold position is irrelevant it seems so far.

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Yeah. I think the mold as a whole would have been updated.

Seems like for most there are 4 positions, just like the Hau Nuva, and 2 molds, as seen with the Kakama, Akaku, and Hau. The differences are happening within the same mold-position combo as is the case with my Kakama.

Edit:

So
 the whole prototype thing
 I have to kinda assume that, since the molds did change, those old ones with the codes on front have to be using these IDs too
 Why would they be doing dark grey Ruru before deciding on going with a dark grey Ruru?

But then, that doesn’t line up with the Sand Tarakava. Why is the prototype of the Tarakava using a mask that is newer than the masks worn by the final Tarakava? That doesn’t make sense.

There’s also the fact that the Toa Mata limbs in grey appear earlier, alongside all the other colors of them


To add even more confusion to it – We have seen the yellow Hau with the code on front – in 2003! (Probably reusing an old prototype though.)
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And again, where is the trans-blue Rau?

Also, when were the marbled Miru produced? :confused:
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Some big news again over at the research topic:

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Looks a lot like these are straight-up prototypes rather than finalized parts.

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Yep, they are, I think all of them. It is fascinating seeing that some of the masks predicted to exist in the final form (based on the sheet) also exist in prototype form.
Also I posed this question in the other topic: Is that Mahiki bright blue (23) or violet (110)? It seems too vibrant of a color to be just blue.

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Looks like just regular mata blue to me

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Looking on the inside of those dual mold Miru would tell us if they were made before 2002 or after based on the info we have gathered in this topic. But that would be a manner of contacting the owners of those masks.

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I was thinking the same thing. It looks too blue and dark though, but you never know with violets on camera. Reminds me of dark blue-violet / Dark Royal Blue.

The white Kaukau, yellow kakama, purple voodoo arm, light grey “spur”, and teal axestand out to me as things we don’t have IDs for. Wonder how the axe compares to the Lewa prototype. The dark grey Hau as well, given that wouldn’t be a thing until 03, and this one has a code.

Speaking of the IDs, I’m thinking that the code-on-front masks have to be the first (or second?) iteration of the mold for the Ruru and Hau to make sense – at least if the material of those is the usual (which would mean they’re molded, which obviously means they have to have had molds).

There’s also the fact that among the initial Toa Mata parts are Kopaka’s and Onua’s limbs in the greys, and that’s before any mask


I think that on a smaller scale, they’re not all that useful for determining when decisions were made. I figure a lot of these were added in several bulk orders that may not have been entered in exact chronological order of when they were made, or something along those lines. I.e. not an organized queue.

Also, some instruction manuals come before the parts that they include, such those of the HF 2.0 heroes, or the Toa Mata’s. They were probably revised, just like the molds?

Asked Black Six about the Miru; time to wait and see. Not sure if he still has any.
Edit: Nope, he doesn’t have them anymore.

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Thanks for the effort. I think all of the parts on the newest picture are prototypes (not final molds).
From the ones I can tell for sure:
orange Matatu
white Huna
black Huna
dark gray Rau
dark gray Hau
light gray Ruru
yellow Kakama
medium blue Pakari
tan Miru
teal axe
gray foot addition
purple toa arm

The rest I can’t definitely say I see the giveaway signs of prototype parts (from this specific picture), but considering those are in minority, it is safe to assume all of them are indeed prototypes and not final molds.

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