I agree strongly with this. I am 100% opposed to any and all romance in BIONICLE anyways, but any romance between the main six Toa is completely out of the question for me.
Well, EmmetxWyldstyle was the best (canon) Lego pairing I've ever seen (even if the circumstances were a bit over-the-top ).
But, my point that's a bit of an exception to the rule, the Lego movie had special writers and cinematic funding, and its the same thing if TTV writes it, outside the usual case.
Or, maybe I'm still just jaded from JayxNyaxCole.
Also, I kind of think that romantic interaction within the team would mess-up the team-dynamic.
Quick question, did either of you feel that the inclusion of families, and (by proxy) romantic love damaged or improved G2?
True, I won't deny what you're saying makes sense. I guess it's more that it'd be weird from our view point as fans, as this is a more action adventure based theme "for kids." But it can work well.
However I'd like to toss in the idea that it can complicate the rest of the team's relationship. That happens too.
That is true, but since we're not making the characters human (just humanoid) nor are we having any humans at all, I feel that it is important to include a few other Human "traits" or circumstances, such as romance.
Not including love, I feel, would make the characters feel more alien, which might be fine with G1 fans, but it could alienate at least some of the general public.
... platonic love is still love dude. And regardless I'm actually in favor of romantic love existing in g3, just not between the toa. In fact I suggested one of the toa already be married at the start, probably onua since he's always appeared to be the most mature of the toa.
True. I like the JayXNya pairing, but adding Cole was a needless and stupid edition that did nothing to change or strengthen the story. Same with Cole's ghost form.
Wow, I just realized that Cole really gets the short stick when it comes to storytelling.
This is not a bad idea. For one of the Toa to have a family, or at least a girlfriend/boyfriend, would go a long way to setting the stakes.
laugh Yah, its a bit of a shame, and that's not even going into what they did to his character. (He was supposed to be the disciplined and collected leader in the beginning, which didn't survive past the pilot)
I get where you're coming from, but if a toa were already married as a matoran, and then continued that marriage with them as a toa, wouldn't it be essentially the same as thought two toa had fallen in love? (I mean, the only real difference is height, and with minifigures, there's even less of a difference)
What doesn't make sense to me is you're fine with matoran x matoran, and toa x matoran, but not toa x toa?
If they're all the same "species" in this G3, wouldn't it be more weird if the toa didn't fall in love?
We're not saying that we should exclude it from the lore; we just don't want it happening with "on screen" characters as it could mess-up character dynamics in the story.
We're NOT objecting to including romantic love, marriage families, etc. in the world; we just don't want romantic relationships between the main six Toa (GalixTahu/GalixKopaka/FemLewaxPahatu etc.) as we feel that would messup their dynamics.
It could also add character dynamics in the story.
Nobody knows how something will turn out, unless they do it.
(This is a very extreme and dark example that I'd rather not see but it would help character development: A mother toa loses her son to enemy rahkshi; that would give her all the more incentive to train, master her element, etc.)
It might alter their personalities a little bit, but you could say the same when the Toa Mata became Toa Nuva. Your personality matures and changes through the hardship you've faced with life. Love is just one more hardship to tackle. All it would do is help the toa mature.
Worst case scenario, it would leave a toa heartbroken with no more sense of duty, unity, or purpose in life.
But this is Lego we're talking about; I 100% believe they wouldn't allow that to happen, or at least not for long anyway.
"Because it could be bad" can apply to everything.
I think a familial bond can be used (and of course, would be used for the majority of the Toa i.e. the ones not in a relationship with other Toa in the group) quite well, but I don't see how that would be "better". It's simply a different type of relationship that people have with each other.
Also, "feels more Bionicle" is something that's pretty subjective to a lot of our fans, and there's things that some people think that "feel Bionicle" that we've already written off, like it being constraction, or genders being locked to elements, or a five to one gender ratio. We wrote those off because we figured out the core of Bionicle (worldbuilding/aesthetic) and are throwing out the arbitrary rules and restrictions that previous generations had. "No romance between the Toa" falls into that category.
Here's a list of things that can "mess up" character dynamics in a story:
- People hating each other (initial Tahu and Kopaka)
- People liking each other (Kopaka and Pohatu)
- People maturing (Tahu)
- People growing in power (Takua/Takanuva)
- People dying (Matoro)
- People turning evil (Lewa, Tahu, Vakama)
My point is, character dynamics are supposed to change and grow. That's the whole point of character development. As they change, the dynamic changes. I hate it when people use the term "mess up" as that denotes a negative change, and implies that every romance will end in a negative change in a group dynamic. Every relationship is an avenue for character growth, and romance isn't any different from that.
I actually support with some of the Toa having families (I think Onua is a good candidate) as it does add depth and character motivation.
Because it creates a shared bond between the entire group rather than multiple different splinter groups of the team, also I'm really advocating for the toa to refer to each other as siblings.
Don't throw out the baby with the bath water, there are things that aren't necessarily part of the core of bionicle that are regardless important to its identity, I worry you guys will end up changing so many things that you don't consider the core of bionicle that the end result will barely resemble the name.
Yes, I'm not saying that every change is bad (or I'd be objecting to the romance to romance entirely), but not every relationship works with every set of characters. In fact, some relationships are antithetical to each other.
Each Toa team had its own distinct dynamic, and sibling rivalry seemed to define the Toa Mata; a "brotherly" relationship that seems to contradictory the romantic relationships within the group.
I understand that these are new characters, and that they do not necessarily follow the originals, but I think keeping some version of the old team would be useful to contrast with newer teams in the future.
I would be far more open to shipping within the Toa Metru, or even the Toa Ignika.
I'm not sure if that would sense in the new "canon."
I think Kahi just wants to keep their options open, he hasn't actually purposed any deal-breaking changes yet. (at least in my opinion)
I didn't say mess up tho...
You're right, but I would say that I find it hard to believe that it can change for the better in terms of dynamics. unless it's an acceptance thing.
I have to agree, (although honestly I think it might work for the Toa Metru).
I have to agree with you, you worded that better than I clearly can.
The familial relationship between the toa mata is something that was in both generations, granted the simplification process neutered most of the nuance of the character interaction in g2, but even then it poked through here and there, and it would be a darn shame to lose it.
Exactly! And honestly, I don't think @Jon is so much pushing to include his favorite ships in the pitch, as he is looking for ways to build character depth.
Perhaps we should just write these sibling relationships into our character pitches, and let it go from there. (Speaking of which, would you mind I messaged you to get your opinion of some of my ideas?)
You can still have a family-like team, but have more complex relationships within it!
Var stated in a podcast (I forgot which one) that they would not be doing any action to turn the bromance of Pohatu and Kopaka (probably the biggest family-like relationship in Bionicle ever!) into a romance!
And romance has worked in other stories/properties before.
The original Teen Titans, for example, I'd say are pretty close in terms of a family - they always have each others' back and always stick up for what is right - but no one can deny that there were always romance in the group as well.
Cyborg and Beast Boy are the Pohatu and Kopaka - best buds - of the group, while Robin x Starfire, Beast boy x Raven and even Cyborg x Jynx are all co-existing as well.
That would be more applicable to me if I was any good at writing stories, I'm amateurish at best, perhaps I can do something a little more visual.
I appreciate the courtesy of asking, I suppose it can't hurt.
Let me just reword that to the current argument,
You can have an adopted sibling team and still have romantic relations between them.
No thank you.