Romance In Brickonicle? [POLL]

Couldn't hurt to try, TTV has made it clear that they respond well the visual stuff. :slight_smile:

Thank you! :relaxed:

Adoption is not the same as a family-bond.

I don't know where this was implied in my statement, but that is not what I said at all.
A family bond is the feeling that you got each other's backs, you're blood brothers, to incorporate it more so.

Han Solo from Star Wars, I'd say, illustrates this well. Han and Chewie are "brothers" in the sense that they'll protect each other and defend each other.

Han and Leia will also do that, but they have a greater feel for one another. Does this interfere sometimes in battles and/or story? Yes, but it's more in terms of dialogue rather than actions.
The only times Han and Leia did anything "romantic" (or caring) was when the other person's life was at stake, and when the battle was finally over.

And if you really want to get technical. Ang and Katara from Avatar kind of do have this "adoption" relationship. Katara and her brother found Ang in the ice and became responsible for him. They Also fought together and became aware of each others' strengths and weaknesses in battle and life.
And do you know what happened?
They ended up being a couple.

Except they're not raised together or related by blood. That's like trying to break up one of your friends' relationships by going "Imagine if you were related!" Well, yeah, that'd make it weird if they were, but they're not, that's kind of the point.

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Ok, I have two statements.

One, while this is an important discussion, I'm not sure if this is the right topic for it. I think this just for settling whether or not romantic love (and by extension, families) will exist in G3, which seems to be settled as "yes."

Two, This is a shame, because I had a diagram ready to illustrate my point.

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I don't think you're getting it; they. Are. Not. Siblings. They are however-old Matoran who become Toa and meet each other, becoming friends, and forming a blood-brother type bond. That does not mean they are siblings.
And I get what you are saying about why you want this, but you are in the minority on this one.

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I understand. The point isn't that they are actually related, its just that a certain kind of relationship which seems antithetical to romantic love was a distinctive part of the Toa Mata. The example isn't to say that they are related, but to illustrate the point with an example of another relationship which is antithetical to romantic love. :confused:

Looks like I'll be getting the chart after all. :stuck_out_tongue:

Roughly speaking, relationships fall into three groups. Not all relationships within the same group are necessarily the same, but they are "compatible," they can coexist between the same people, while relationships which fall into different groups are "incompatible," in order for one to exist, the other must change.

(Is it weird that I just so happened to have this lying around? :sweat_smile:)

We are saying that the distinctive team dynamic within Toa Mata falls into the "equal/alike" section (on the far right), while another like the Toa Ignika have a dynamic falling very squarely the "equal/unlike" section (middle), leaving that group far more open to romantic relationships.

We are not saying that the team dynamic can't change, but that for many of us, it is a "core" part of the Toa Mata team (personally, it's the only part of the team I actually care about), and we just want to make that clear to others going forwards.

I'm thinking maybe we should just leave this discussion here and debate the merits/faults of individual ships. :confused:

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I'm. Not. Saying. They. Are.

That, you literally just used my argument, I made this clear earlier,

Thank you for summing up my point again.

According to what? The polls? They only tell you that people want romance to exist in g3,
or did you go through all the posts and tally the people for and against shipping the mata?
Regardless I will not be dissuaded by a baseless appeal to the majority.

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I did actually.

Sure, there are people who are 'Whatever' and adamant 'No!' But I out of the people posting for or against shipping the mata, it was 10 for, and 6 against. So, not as wide a margin as I made it out to be, but it is still a sizeable margin.

Yes however, this changes the dynamic of the group (which people are against). You may not feel as though you maybe able to joke around with one half of the couple as you did before they got together. This can apply to the rest of the group in the fact that they may not know how they feel they should act around the couple. other people of the group may start looking at others in the group differently. People of the group may feel left out the group or even feel as though they belong to the group. And if there happens to be a particularly messy break up you may feel as though (or they make you ) chose a side dividing the group even further.

I'm really beginning to feel as though we are just repeating the last podcast. :stuck_out_tongue:

I'm thinking that I should just make a new topic for this discussion, as we are all pretty much agreed that, regardless of what we do with the Toa, romantic love and its accoutrements should be included in the world. (50% support even with the "change is scary" disadvantage :imp: )

As shown by the historical events leading up to Valentine's day, warriors do not like it when you take away their lovers.

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Teenagers with attitude.
Granted cosmic powers to defend their home from a monumental threat.
Have to learn to work together in order to win, and grow in friendship accordingly.

This ringing a bell for anybody else?
And I'm not talking about '04.

Genuinely curious: are you, then, against reproduction between the Matoran altogether? Even if it existed as a "background fact" that didn't tie into the main story, and didn't factor into the Toa's relationships with each other (as with G2)?

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Again, changing the dynamic of the group is not always bad, and in fact the dynamic is supposed to change based on the development of the characters and the relationships they form with each other. Pohatu becoming best friends with Kopaka will change the dynamic, especially if Tahu and Kopaka clash and Pohatu backs Kopaka up. Similarly, Tahu (hypothetically) getting into a romantic relationship with Gali would change the dynamic if she backed up Tahu against Kopaka. There's no real difference there between one relationship developing vs. another kind of relationship developing.

Obviously, you don't want to change the dynamic in a bad way overally, but that's a matter of writing. I don't think that romance automatically does that.

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fair enough

this is were I'll have to disagree. (While this is personal preference I believe that everybody else does this too) I expect different things from different relationships. There may be things that I don't tell my friends but I will tell my family, and vice versa.

Correct, but you don't need romance to be able to create well developed characters or to change group dynamics.

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Just to clarify, you're only asking for us to keep our options open, and not actually endorsing TahuxGali.

Yes.

Of course they're different in the sense of how close they are to you and how you interact with them. I meant in a broader sense, saying that one type of relationship improves the dynamic but this other type of relationship only hurts the dynamic. That's not true.

Of course not. I'm not saying we even need romance between the Toa. I'm saying there's no logical reason to outlaw it.

Ok, I think I see what the problem is.
I think we might have been assuming that you were endorsing introducing a "love story" between the Toa, purely for the sake of seeing what it would do to the characters, when we were pretty sure that's not the direction the natural group dynamic would have naturally evolved. :confused:

Sorry for that assumption. Although, I still predict that is not the direction in which the characters purposed will naturally tend, I agree that there no reason the prohibit a particular plot direction out-of-hand.

Note to self, always review the last podcast before picking a fight with a cast member. :sweat_smile:

This is my reasoning for outlawing it outright. This idea that the characters take upon a life of their own, while I understand it, is not a good enough reason to me to allow any of the six main Toa to "date."

I can easily prohibit it since it will never be something any of the Toa will ever do, because intent falls entirely on the writer, and the intent shouldn't be a romance.

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Not sure that you can say that with definitive assurance until these characters are actually being written and you see where they are going. We honestly haven't even talked in-depth about their personalities yet. One thing that's definitely going to be done is addressing the fact that G1 had two "wise" characters in the same team (Gali and Onua) and it resulted in a redundancy (really, with Onua - I feel like he got the least focus out of the team as a whole).

The intent of our story should be "whatever works best for these characters and their development". Rpmance will not by it's nature do that. You can definitely argue that it does in specific cases with specific characters (the NyaxJayxCole triangle, for example). But I have never heard an actually sound reason that anyone would go so far to completely outlaw the concept. Every other reason I've heard doesn't logically hold up.

Which is why I predict that it will never happen. I know with shippers, if you give them an inch, they take a mile, and I'm worried about that to. But, I think it will do us more good to wait until people put forwards actual, individual ships and point out their flaws as they come up than try to fight the entire concept.

So, instead of discussing the sort of relationship we don't want the Toa to have, lets go discussion the kind of relationship we do want them to have.

(Insert shameless plug of my Relationships topic here)

Fair enough. I'm basing it off of the discussions on the boards and the general zeitgeist I get from listening to the podcast.

(I actually started a topic for the exact purpose of discussing this kind of thing. Insert shameless plug of my Relationships topic here)

Speaking of which, what do you think of the idea being thrown around of making Onua an actual husband/father before he became a Toa? (I understand if that's the sort of thing you want to save for the podcast)