The Shadows Have RISEN!

Thank you all SO much for the reviews! they were exactly what we were looking for! glad to see all kind of opinions! :blush: very glad to see so many of you like gali! was not expecting that.

i personally contacted chronicler about posting this here. so if its not alright with the team then please let me know. i have some learning to do about this forum so if a cross a line i am never trying to cause trouble. i just wasn't aware of a rule. i have read the rules and am always trying to go back a check them before i do something. :slight_smile:

This is what I'm curious about.

@dragologer, care to show us where this Lego designer gave your project his personal thumbs-up?

5 Likes

Seconded.

mind giving us the proof, sir?

4 Likes

Thirded? Please show us my good man.

3 Likes

Here I'll be reviewing some of the sets that came today from the Shadow's Rise team. So here we go:


The Shadow Okotin

Since they share a clone build I'll be reviewing these mostly as a group.

So the build is nice and simple. The arm function seems nicely implemented, though I can't comment on how well it works. However the upper arms seem slightly off, though I guess it does an OK job at adding in the wings, which do fit the overall aesthetic quite nicely. One other problem is the exposed ball joints on the torso, but that is very minor as I'm not sure how it could have been improved since shells may have ruined the overall look and they do blend in quite well with the dark colour schemes.

http://board.ttvchannel.com/uploads/db5640/original/3X/5/c/5c5a6e84fa1a10dc514c3cbb3ac0d981eb8ae0c2.JPG

The weapons are a bit of a mixed bunch. The Fire Okotin has an OK looking sword, nothing too impressive but with such a small set you can't expect much more. The Earth Okotin has a decent looking flail, done better than Pohatu's 2016 since it actually looks practical, even if the chain is a bit long. The Ice Okotin has a generic shield, nothing bad just underwhelming a little. The Jungle Okotin has what is, essentially, a shortened version of Skull Basher's axes which weren't all that great to begin with. The Water Okotin weapon is very nice IMO, it pulls of a short spear/long handled sword. Regardless, nicely done. The Stone Okotin has a decent hammer for this size, however the red pins stick out and the CCBS seems a little tacked on. The reused blaster is what it is, not sure on how I feel about using silver studs.

Overall these guys are rather nice:
+ nice and simple
+ nicely done arm function
+ wings work with aesthetic
+ good colour schemes
+ using Toa masks make them seem creepy and unnatural in a way
+ the Water Okotin weapon
- proportions a bit off
- red axels (Eljay will be onto you)
- some lackluster weapons
- upper arms are bare
- exposed ball joints
7.5/10


Tahu Eclipser of Fire

Well I'll start with the positive: he's got a decent colour scheme, there's still a lot of gold but not as much as his Uniter form, so that's a plus. Just enough trans red but red is still predominant, however some trans red bones may have helped because the grey bones look a little dull, especially considering how exposed the bone is on the upper legs. The cape is nice enough addition, maybe not quite Tahu, but it works.

http://board.ttvchannel.com/uploads/db5640/original/3X/1/5/15a42cc86c0ba39036adf71f86be084275da6104.JPG

However the negative: I understand they wanted weapons with functions but they could have done more than recycle Uniter Tahu's sword design. Also a unique sword design across all the Toa would have been good as well. He also bears an uncanny resemblance to Brain Attack Furno, as @Jormad noted, this isn't helped by the cape. The shoulder armour doesn't do a fantastic job either, it doesn't curve round the shoulder, leaving a slight gap, which I find off putting as it interrupts the flow. Finally, the lower legs are a mess, the skull armour add on leaves a large between it and the leg and the CCBS shell on the back of the leg looks tacked on whilst also giving it unneeded width so it looks out of proportion.

Overall:
+ colour scheme
+ cape
+ trying to implement a function into the weapon
+ nice looking flame dagger
- looks a lot like Brain Attack Furno
- flame dagger is essentially a copy paste of said Furno's sword
- bad lower legs
- exposed upper legs
- poorly done lower arms
- poor shoulder armour
5/10


Lewa, Eclipser of Jungle

The positive: The trans blue here works surprisingly well thanks to its presence on the elemental jungle flame pieces. Consistent colour scheme overall so that is cool. Those crystal blades on his back look nice, they don't appear to do much and appear reminiscent of Tahu 2015's Golden Swords, but still nice. The overall smooth aesthetic is nice.

http://board.ttvchannel.com/uploads/db5640/original/3X/d/6/d6145f297d3f43c6a2946642cc872788b86bfbe3.JPG

The negative: The unneeded asymmetry doesn't work. The skull armour add on is out of place, both in texture and colour. The star sword is overly geebled with all the vines and whatnot. His jungle spear isn't really a spear and is the same as Tahu's weapon. Also the upper legs should really be trans blue as they clash with the other limbs for that reason, on the subject of limbs the upper arms look really short and out of proportionate, but maybe that's just me. Finally, not sure the ribcage was the best choice either.

Overall:
+ good colour scheme
+ nice inclusion of trans blue
+ good use of crystal blades
+ overall aesthetic works
+ jungle spear looks nice but not really a spear
- unneeded and ugly asymmetry
- skull armour add on doesn't fit and clashes texturally and colour wise
- star sword is essentially clone of Tahu uniter weapon and is over geebled
- upper limbs on arms appear too short
- colour of upper legs limbs clash
- ribcage doesn't really fit, especially with the smooth upper arms and overall look
7.5/10


Gali, Eclipser of Water

Since this is essentially a clone of Tahu Uniter I won't go in depth, it shares the same flaws. Instead of too much gold however there is too much silver. Removal of shoulder armour makes them appear exposed. Friction extenders leave an unsatisfactory gap between the leg and foot.

http://board.ttvchannel.com/uploads/db5640/original/3X/8/4/84e6a80566fb9caac1e62a4f2554a515a4a45a4b.JPG

Overall: 7/10


I might do the rest at a later date if people are interested

thanks SO much! this is the best review i have heard all day! would love to hear more!

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What's with the hard vignette on all of the photos? I feel like I'm looking through a pipe.

2 Likes

OK. this thing feels like enough of a crapstorm to the point where i feel comfortable in throwing my hat into the ring.

time for another episode of

Sammy MST3K'ing a Topic!

Allow me to start off with legit reviews:

Shadow Okotans

To be honest, they all seem to be mostly the same, with very little to differentiate the builds. Not even LEGO was this lackluster with their sets. their sets at least had different builds, and some variety in their colors. These all just look like reskins of each other.

Tahu

hmm, where have i seen those hips and that forearm design before?

HMMM... /s

anyways, besides that lil' coincidence, the lightsaber weapon seems odd, and the gears on the shoulder stick out a bit.

Kopaka

Oh boy.

the entire torso construction looks odd, and puffs out quite a bit. the "wings" on the back seem flimsy, and could use work.

Onua

the entire moc kinda looks... frail, especially when compared to the giant chest. that, and the butt gear juts out quite a bit.

Lewa

OK, the lightsaber weapon looks off once again, and the use of trans blue to justify it just doesn't work well. Green and yellow work together better than green and light blue.

Pohatu

The shot you took of him is unflattering as heck, the usage of Rey's cloth looks odd, and the usage of light blue instead of neon green was a really odd choice, especially since you already have some neon green on the moc

This argument also applies to Lewa, but having more than 1 trans color, sans the eyestalk, doesn't work well.

Gali

As @TheMoltenKing said, it does look like a knockoff Tahu Uniter. Even has the blade gimmick as well. overall, just a meh rehashing of a pre-existing design.

Not-Doomarak

remember what i said about trans colors earlier? yeah, that applies here as well. this, along with how the gold is distributed makes this thing look bad, The mask doesn't really work with the jaw either.

Ekimu

and I thought the EtMM set was anorexic, jeez. the posing doesn't help matters either. The shield looks generic, the use of a SW chestplate, instead of a Kopaka Master chestplate throws the colors off, and overall, it makes EtMM looks amazing.

Fire Warrior

We got orange, red, purple, black, gold. and green all in one package. It's a visual mess. Pick 1 primary color, 1-2 accent colors, and a neutral color. don't try and mix a whole bunch of colors together like ya did here. it makes it a mess.

Neo Quake Beast

meh, looks okay. still got no clue as to why you keep using Tahu Uniter's sword design all the time.

Umarak, Warrior of Jungle

know what i said about the not-doomarak, and how the mask and jaw didn't work? still doesn't work. I also pointed out why the trans green and trans purple don't work that well together.

Makuta

Literally just JtO Makuta with wings, and all the orange replaced with purple.

Other issues with OP

you and who?

also, yeah, worked real hard on rehashing makuta, but with purple, and the re-use of the same build over and over again.

....

I...

you what?

this feels like a shield for you to deflect criticism with.

to what standards are you holding these crtiticisms to, sir?

constructive criticism is mostly going to be negative, mate.

...

but

LEGO tries different builds.

this feels like a roundabout way of you defending the lack of originality in your builds.

assure.

could you please decipher what this word salad means?

umm

yea, maybe if you tried being a little more creative with your parts usage, then this wouldn't be an issue.

granted.

but that doesn't mean that re-using the same exact design for weapons is a good idea.

way to be patronizing to critics.

...

i fail to see why you couldn't try and make the swords different in construction, though.

ayy, i was right!

you ARE using that as a way to deflect legit criticisms!

why does this pertain to the MOCs?

they should be able to stand alone from the story, if you're making them out to be like retail sets.

they should be able to appeal to someone who's never heard of your little story.

and they do not here. they just seem generic, and an easy pass, if i saw them on shelves.

so, criticism is basically useless to y'all.

gotcha.

o hey, deflection!

how've ya been?

shameless plug is shameless.

do you have...

screesnhots for proof, sir?

where be the proof.

....

you're not gonna go far in life, mate.

not with that attitude about debate and decision making.

i've stated this earlier, so i'll state it again.

proof?

first off,

*instance

second, you're basically saying "y'all are being too critical, therefore, these are gonna stay the way they are"

that's not a good way to go about criticism.

you learn from it, you build off of it, you improve.

you don't deflect it every chance you get, man.

best because it's in-depth with all the flaws, or best because it's the highest someone's rated the MOCs?

hit this entire topic right on the nose, Joe.

20 Likes

Alright.

First off, I'm going to be the fifth person to insist we get proof of your interactions with the LEGO designer you mention. If you cannot give evidence, I simply find myself obliged to disregard the notion entirely.

Either way, I doubt it's anywhere in LEGO's business plan to say they dislike somebody's creation. That's just outright bad for their image, and it wouldn't hold up to LEGO's standards.


Second...here we go.

Neruhi
He's uh...well, EXACTLY the same as he was fourth months ago. So basically, in that four months, nothing was improved upon where it desperately needed to be.

The torso, first off, is a complete and total block. I seem to recall there is supposedly a swinging arm function, of which I can almost see some sort of workings, but without more than one picture (which was taken over four months ago, I'll remind everybody), I can't fully tell how functional it is or if it even exists.

The singular wing is a consistent flaw between all of the little guys. If this was a "parts limitation," then I don't understand how it got its way into a MOC you were trying to make as close to a real set as possible.

The open balljoints on the torso aren't the worst on this guy, since they're next to gunmetal which slightly masks them, but unfortunately looking at the rest of the roster, I doubt I'll get to say that more than once.

On the bright side, his weapon looks rather cool for using just parts from the sets.

Hutea
Honestly, probably the best out of the little fellows. Still holds the same flaws inherent to the build, but I think that because this guy uses a big heavy weapon and has those boot-like legs, he works best with the torso build.

Unfortunately, of course, the torso remains a complete and total block, he still only has one wing, and the mask stands out...so...very...very painfully.

Ilaso
Copy and paste from the first two. He's got a block for a torso, is missing a wing, and the mask stands out like...well, the ONLY spot of gold on a black, trans-light-blue, and silver character. Additionally, he's got orange eyes...for, some reason or another. Which completely stand out and mess with his coloring even more. Still, I think the weapon worked out pretty well, although I'd rather have seen the transparent saw get used in some creative way rather than just the regular silver.

Salma
Yeah...I'll be blunt, I think this is the worst of the six. The arms are painfully bare, he's got the ever present box torso and half wing, the claws are way too big for his scale, and the weapon (a redeeming factor on the previous three) is just outright boring and uninspired. Even the legs feel awkward since the transparent armor does little to cover up the CCBS beneath it. The mask, of course, also stands out as usual here.

Muaka
Because uh...apparently he's a cow. Or something. Names are hard.

I kinda like this guy a little bit for the same reason as the Earth one. He's got the big weapon to match the brutish look, and his colors are pretty dynamic.

On the other hand, I can basically read the list of cons off without looking:
Blocky torso.
Only one wing.
Spindly arms.
Exposed balljoints.
Off-color mask.

And really, that's all there is to this guy. He gets a couple bonus points because I see Entropy's 2015 foot design in there and that makes me happy though.

Reatu
Copy paste here. The weapon could use a bit more bulk, and the mixed metallics are a bit weird. There's no reason to explain the list all over again.

Alright...so, we see here that it's a parts limitation...but here's the better question: You refer to the creator as "the builder." Are you simply referring to yourself in the third person, or did somebody else make them who you have not credited? Because I'm pretty sure the second one is way, way worse.


Moving on to the Toa.

Tahu
The best thing I've seen thus far, and yet what baffles me is how you used gold on all the masks for the little guys, and yet used silver on the masks for the Toa. It makes absolutely no sense from a color scheme standpoint.

On the bright side, aside from the transblue on the sword and the aforementioned silver mask, the color scheme is consistent enough and the design - although a basic CCBS build - is done pretty well. I actually quite like the thighs, since the layered armor part is simply so good at making stuff look fancier.

...however, the knees don't help. They really mess with the aesthetic you had going. Just saying.

Kopaka
It's a bit hard to tell much about this guy...but from what I can tell, the legs are one dimensional, there's not really any consistency in the armoring, and the wings just kinda...sit there. They don't look big enough for him to fly, but they're not small enough for me to pass them off as just fancy armor spikes. To add...that's not a flail. That's a few links of chain and a flimsy claw impersonating something somewhat resembling a flail.

Also, the theme of shared cons continues as we see with the silver on his mask. It really stands out.

Onua
He's...uh, lanky. Which is weird for Onua. But he's super lanky.

Honestly I think that's basically a death sentence here. He looks like a bizarre melding of Onua's 2015/16 form, but like he's been stretched out and flattened. Really hurts the Onua look.

Lewa
Just...swap the two gunmetal kneepads out and clean up the thighs, and I think this one could be legitimately pretty cool. The best one so far by a good margin - the silver on the head doesn't even bother me since he's actually got silver as a primary color. The only thing that really stands out here are those gunmetal bits, which are obviously an easy fix.

Pohatu
The best...followed by...what is this? I can kinda see where you were going with it, but the transblue has no place on a Toa of Stone, the cloth element just ends up looking awkward, and his colors remain painfully inconsistent. Even the armoring just isn't up to part for CCBS styling - look at the knees, for example. What made you decide to leave the knees completely open, when there were at least three different ways of effectively covering it up and having it look way better?

Gali
I believe it's already been mentioned, but Gali is pretty generic. Fortunately for Gali, it works out...mostly.

Her coverage is pretty decent. Her weapons although boring, aren't obnoxiously in the way, and the mask doesn't stand out again due to the silver armoring elsewhere.

Unfortunately she's got rock texturing, ribbing textures, whatever you wanna call the textures on the Skull armor pieces, and the piston armoring, as well as the comicbook textures on the chestpiece...which is about four primary textures too many. That conflict really messes up the end result of the character.

Karnarohk
Oh.
It's Umarak the Destroyer.
That set I absolutely hated.

Y'know, I'd be providing way more critique on this, but it's Umarak the Destroyer. And If I try to critique Umarak the Destroyer then I'll be here for the next four hours and I'm uninterested in that.

The color scheme is eye catching, at the very least.

Ekimu
I hope we're missing some part in the bio about how Ekimy shattered his knee and hobbled to the final battle with a backwards leg.

It's tall. Spindly. Awkward. And gives little to no evocation of this hybrid element you've got him listed as. Otherwise, he's basically just another Toa build...or in other words, just another CCBS build. Moving on.

Takanak
I can't tell what I'm looking at.
The colors are all over the place. The armoring is all over the place. And most of it is just copy-pasted from real sets to begin with.

Grelnoc
He's probably got one of the most eyecatching color schemes yet. But on the other hand, it's Quake Beast with limb modifications and some horns.The base purple on the head also stands out a lot.

I quite like the heavy weapon he's got going there, though. It really feels like what we'd have seen for a G2 Rahkshi staff. Probably the most accurate thing we've had to a continuation of G2 in the whole topic thus far.

Sliglak
First off that chain...needs to be dark grey. He's already got multiple translucent colors, and the trans-orange chain is really messing with that.

Other than that, I spot Umarak the Hunter legs,, generic CCBS thighs and arms, and a basic torso build with overall decent covering. Probably the best of the three Rahkshi, barring that harshly distracting trans-orange chain.

Makuta
Now this is the most accurate thing to a continuation of G2. Because it's the regular JtO Makuta...with a few mods...in a slightly different color scheme Without trying to fix the glaring flaws or major issues that the original combiner.

I quite like the wings you've got going there, though. They're not all that special, but at least in this light they almost look trans-purple which would have been so cool to see as an actual part.

Other than that...I got nothing. Not a basic CCBS build, but nothing I haven't seen a dozen times over before already.


Lastly.

If you're referring to negative feedback as insults, degrading commentary, or simply rude translation of critique, then I see what you mean.
But keep in mind that some people might understand "negative" feedback as also including constructive criticism. Which, trust me, ignoring critique hasn't really ended well for anybody so far that I can recall - it's just the nature of the beast when it comes to posting your content on an online medium where people are allowed free reign of their responses.


PREPOST EDIT:
Darnit @Sammythekat, now we have TWO massive posts stacked on top of one another.

12 Likes

So, I was going to keep out since what I thought about the sets has already been said, namely by Ekorak, MK, and Jormad, but this has kind of got my attention for other reasons, namely about criticism and this anonymous LEGO designer.

First, to address the elephant in the room, sixth to ask proof of the designer as I am very interested to hear from them or see any of what they said.

Second, I would understand not taking negative feedback if it isn't constructive and with the intention of seeing an improved version, something you were pretty quick to refuse, it seems. However, I have not seen anybody on the boards that gives truly non-constructive criticism, and if so, they would've been warned or flagged. As some have said before, ignoring any and all criticism does not help one improve, and receiving only positive remarks actually seems impossible since people are free to state what they think on the internet, which you can calmly debate about. If anything, responses that only provide positive reinforcement seem to be worse than constructive criticism.

Third, the whole "not changing anything" subject. If what has been said before was "exactly what you've been looking for", then why not change some things if people give suggestions and point out specific flaws? If you're not going to improve the sets, then why ask for criticism? Is this just a one-and-done deal? To be honest, if I made something and people pointed out some flaws about it, I would try to see my Mocs from their point of view (since sometimes, the creators don't have the best judgement about their own creations), rebuild it according to what they said, and see for myself whether or not it improves. I wouldn't leave it as is, I'd build on it, then post a V2 topic and see what people say, then probably rinse and repeat until people start saying from an objective standpoint that the set is well-built and creative.

I'm not sure what the point of saying "Leave your thoughts and questions down below!" when you aren't actually taking people's thoughts into consideration. Instead, you say that the feedback below isn't worth being noticed in your terms of "constructive" criticism, even though you state that constructive feedback is helpful in the original post. It's actually kind of rude to ignore peoples' voices and dismiss others' reviews as not "real reviews" just because they say something bad about the Mocs, believe it or not. I also hope you plan on crediting whoever built these sets as well as anyone else involved for that matter because it seems like you're just using their work under your name.

9 Likes

I hardly rated them the highest

Is that sarcasm, if not its the one other major thing I disagree with out of what you said

Then nm with that point

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Clone sets and reuse of official builds along with bad color schemes and baseless claims of praise elsewhere despite the generally meh response here as well as dismissal of any negative criticism and an attempt to excuse flaws with story.

If these were sets I wouldn't even buy them for parts, the okotan is bland and the pure laziness of cloning the build six times is baffling, the toa have glaring flaws in regards to both colors and builds and the reuse of tahu uniters sword for all of them is lazy, I thought the uniters had same-y weapons but this is ridiculous, the villains also just reuse set builds and have obnoxious color schemes, and Makuta is literally just the combiner.

This is wholly underwhelming and would not make it to retail.

Of course you're just going to ignore this because you don't want to be told you're "hard work" (which given the amount of reuse of set builds is hard to believe) didn't result in good sets.

Also, assuming you're telling the truth about the Lego employee, FYI I'm also calling for proof on that, them saying they approve of the mocs in no way means they're great and/or allows you to disregard criticism, they work for Lego, of course they're going to be positive, we've all seen the trash that has been featured in cool creations in the Lego magazine.

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It must be bared in mind that a Lego designer would want to avoid insulting a fan as much as possible, at risk of PR disaster.

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Oboy that's a lot of MOCs.

Shadow Okatans: The Shadow Okotans are okay, they don't really bring anything new to the table and they all seem almost exact clones of each other. Also the asymmetry doesn't look too good.

Tahu: Tahu is good, though I swear I've seen that arm design somewhere. The lightsaber also just looks odd and sticks out.

Kopaka: Kopaka actually is pretty nice, though the weapon is a big large.

Onua: The shoulder armor on Onua doesn't looks good, and the shield is laughably small. The weapon is also odd. Otherwise he has some good potential.

Lewa: Lewa's wings (I guess) look okay, but the build is pretty good. Again, the lightsaber doesn't work, but it's the only real flaw I can find.

Pohatu: Pohatu's mishmashes color scheme just doesn't work, his feet would suit One better, and the fact that he has a lightsaber isn't helping. The cloth is cool though.

Gali: I-It's just Tahu with a Gali skin. How do you call this your own creation?

Lord of Shadow: Literally UtD with some add ons that don't look too good.

Ekimu: Ekimu is...odd. The shield is too big, the chest is too low,, the legs are too long, just needs some work.

Takanak: Again, you've reskinned some sets and added thing that honestly don't look too good on them.

Grelnoc: As far as I can tell, this is not a set, and this one actually looks okay. Nothing special, but okay.

Sliglak: See above.

Makuta: Again, JTO Makuta with some different parts. Just to let you know, a MOC is supposed to be YOUR own original design, and copying someone isn't helping you look better in front of the community.

Also, I noticed how pretty much all of these builds reuse designs from other official Lego sets. Just why?

1 Like

yes, yes it is.

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The term is spelled "Okotan" actually. They look a bit clone-set-y, but pretty okay. The Toa are pretty cool, but Pohatu and Onua especially need some work. I like Karnarok, but it could use some better colour distribution. Ekimu... Oh, boy, Ekimu... I like the Shadow warriors, and especially Makuta. I like these models as a whole, but they could definitely use some cleaning up. Also-

That's... Not a good mentality to get into. If you can't recognize your flaws, you can't improve on them.

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I still want to know who that 'Official Lego Designer' is who approved of these. Unless he doesn't exist...

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Sorry dude; no one gets to the dictate the type of feedback that he or she receives. As long as it isn't rude, we're going to be honest with you. If you would prefer to not receive negative feedback, that's fine; just don't post here.

That said, I don't doubt that a lot of work went into these, even if the Okotans end up as clone builds. Pohatu and Takanak, especially, look pretty nice, though the former could benefit from some better posing.

Oh, and proofread your work before posting it. Honestly, it helps a lot.

3 Likes

Man, people really posted a lot on here. Surprising. Also, can we please get some proof of the LEGO designer? It's kind of obvious nobody here believes you.

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I'm the nth person to ask about that lego designer jazz, it's pretty fishy

listen fam, i'm a victim of lack of parts as well, but like
wayyy more effort is necessary for these guys
there are good ideas here, but they're buried by the bad stuff
order parts on bricklink, polish up these dudes, and you may actually have something good here
but like
what we have right now just isn't good
i'd say ekimu is the worst out of all of these, he's a complete mess, followed by pohatu and makutie
grelnoc is the best out of the bunch but he's still pretty generic

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