There never was a Maori Lawsuit?

So a while back in this BIonicle Autopsy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWRlOdZEn7c&list=PLN4VXjm-Lg4LE4ze79GyfA8gL-EYnwGk8 Var said that despite what’s commonly said, there never was really a Maori lawsuit. This is such a common rumor I’m really have a hard time believing it’s not true. Both Biosector01 and the BIonicle wiki say that the reason for so many name changes were from a lawsuit. If this lawsuit didn’t really happen, how did these rumors become so strong?

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I guess when several of the characters, Rahi, locations, and other objects who bore Maori names were renamed back in 2003.

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yup, that’s about right

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probably because the rumor is so believable

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There is a difference between a threat of a lawsuit versus a lawsuit actually happening.

LEGO was forced to change the names to avoid the lawsuit entirely, rather then doing it as a result of losing. So technically speaking, the names were indeed changed because of a lawsuit, but only the possibility of one- not an actual one :smile:

You’ll notice that BS01 also worded it in a way to imply that the issue was avoided:

they were requested to change the names of several characters to avoid a lawsuit by representatives of the Maori people

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Wait, you can sue for using a language?

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So tohunga form can be canon? It sounds a lot better than “weakened” form

Tohunga- matoran- toa-turaga

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I do believe Tohunga was one of the terms that had to be eliminated, hence the introduction of “Matoran” as a replacement. You could always substitute “degenerated” or “devolved” for weakened, as they mean similar things.

If the language is still spoken relatively prominently, and the culture takes offense at its terms being used, then yes. For example, Latin would not be eligible for a lawsuit, as it is a dead language, but using words in other languages as names (aside from actual names in that language–i.e. Chiara, an Italian name that was used for a Toa) risks a lawsuit. That’s why LEGO had such a strict legal system for character names, to avoid future legal action.

I mean, when you consider that a parent once sued LEGO because her child was scared by a Toa Inika ad, a lawsuit over language isn’t that far-fetched…

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Seriously, why would you sue for a kid being scared? I was afraid of horror movie ads, and my parents didn’t sue for that! I mean, why would they anyway?

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You can be sued for anything in this day and age, its ridiculous.

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did they won or lost, cuz some kid getting scared over a commercial is the dumbest reason for a suing I’ve ever heard.

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Since @GenNoble revived this topic already, I thought I might just as well chime in, too - because I definitely have some thoughts on this. :slight_smile:

I’ve never understood how “a culture” as a whole can supposedly be offended by anything. Representatives of a culture can voice their discontent, yes, but at the end of the day, they’re still just individuals. Individuals can feel offended by something, but that is always subjective.

For example, I wonder if any Maori representatives had complained if the word “Tohunga” had been used for the Turaga instead. :nerd_face: Given that the Turaga are the village elders and were initially indeed framed as priests, which is one of the many meanings of the word “Tohunga”.

Magic: The Gathering had a similar issue more recently, with the Merfolk planeswalker originally named Kiora Atua, first introduced in the video game Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012. “Kia ora” is apparently a Maori greeting, but more importantly, “atua” means “God”. Which was kind of funny for me as a German, since especially in the southern parts of Germany as well as Austria, the common greeting “Grüß Gott!” literally translates to “Greet God”. So if you combine the two words in the name “Kiora Atua”, I found that a curious coincidence.

However, of course Wizards of the Coast, the company creating Magic: The Gathering, backpedaled quickly, and removed the surname “Atua” from canon. The planeswalker is now officially only named “Kiora”. That is why the first time she was released as a trading card, her name was not First Name + Surname, as for most planeswalkers when they get their first representation as a card, but instead “Kiora, the Crashing Wave”.

So yeah, don’t you dare create a “Kanohi Atua, Great Mask of Immortality” for your fan fiction, apparently :smile: .

Even though “atua” can also be an adjective and literally mean “immortal”, so it would be just as fitting for that as the Kanohi Kaukau (Maori for “swimming”) is for water… :nerd_face:

Sure, but Latin has been so overused in all kinds of different fantasy stories that taking terms from a different language that still felt like they were “cut from the same cloth”, because they all came from the same language, was a nice breath of fresh air.

And for anyone who actually knows some Latin and enjoys it as a language per se, the language combinations that Bionicle came up with later could be called “offensive” in their own right: Mahri Nui (misspelled “mare”, meaning “sea” in Latin, but then combining it with the previously-established adjecive “nui”, being Maori for “big”) just being the first case.

The biggest offender to any Latin teacher is probably Spherus Magna :nerd_face: . If the word “spherus” actually existed in Latin, the correct adjective would be “magnus”. However, the Latin word for sphere or ball is “sphaera”, so “Sphaera Magna” would have been the proper way to name the planet, and “Sol Magnus” the proper name for the star. Only “Aqua Magna” is grammatically correct.

You might say this is artistic freedom - but when you do insist on resorting to a language that has been so over-done in fiction, you might as well put in the effort to do it properly. :wink:

Even back in 2001 when Bionicle first came out, there was already Harry Potter using pseudo-Latin for its spell formulas, followed shortly afterwards by Jonathan Stroud’s “Bartimaeus” trilogy, in which the wizards used actual Latin. This was the stuff I read as a kid, in parallel to following Bionicle.

Then there was also Eragon, whose author made up fictional languages (not complete ones like Tolkien, though). However, the Elvish language in Eragon for example is heavily based on Scandinavian languages. And I don’t recall any Scandinavian representatives complaining about that. :rofl:

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ay Starto, I meant the inika commercial not the language…or were you also talking about the commercial?

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I’m simplifying massively, but:

Latin was the language of a historical superpower that evolved into the languages now used by still-significant world powers.

Scandinavian countries are also significant world powers today; their culture is not and has not recently been under threat of erasure.

The Maori, by comparison, are a comparatively marginalised people who have had to fight to be represented in their own homeland.

This context matters, it isn’t an academic exercise.

Lego clearly felt it was appropriate to adjust their use of language; whether or not there might have been a lawsuit is interesting, but not the most pertinent issue here.

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The thing to take into context is what the term Tohunga means to the Maori. To quote Wikipedia:

In the culture of the Māori of New Zealand, a tohunga ( tōhuka in Southern Māori dialect) is an expert practitioner of any skill or art, either religious or otherwise. Tohunga include expert priests, healers, navigators, carvers, builders, teachers and advisors. Blockquote

So in a weird sense the Matoran actually fit that very well, with the amount of expert builders and teachers we saw in G1’s society. However, the term Tohunga carries a sort of sacred weight to it, and that is where the cultural appropriation in Bionicle biffed it. From what I understand, the Maori still have people with the title of Tohunga in their society as a formal spiritual term as say Reverend, Priest, Bishop or even how secular terms like Doctor or Professor might be seen in western society. Yes, the Turaga maybe would have fit the norm of a real life Tohunga more; but it still messes with the issue that the title of Tohunga is revered and sacred to the Maori and there are still people working with the title to the present day, take for example Dr. Te Taka Keegan mentioned in this article who is considered a “modern day Tohunga” due to their knowledge in computer science and work in developing a Maori language keyboard with Microsoft. The Success of Te Taka Keegan – A Modern Day Tohunga | Scoop News

In short Tohunga is an honorific to be given to an esteemed community member in both secular and/or spiritual efforts, not one to be used for plastic Lego toys. Imagine if instead of Tohunga the natives of the island were called “Purple Hearts,” since that is a specific and honored honorific title in the US that we would consider to be “stolen valor” if anyone who didn’t earn it were to be using the term.

The Maori words that did remain prominent in Bionicle were much more appropriate to their real life terminology Toa being “fighter” or “champion,” Whenua “land”, Nui “great” etc. etc. My guess is that when Lego was faced with the lawsuit possibility that in their settlement that prevented the lawsuit they agreed to remove Tohunga to be able to preserve the other Maori words already in the Bionicle lexicon. Likewise, when Lego would borrow names from other languages in the future they did it from a mixed language source (like the MNOG II Matoran names) or from a very specifically dead language (Latin for the 2009 story) avoiding the issue of poaching so blatantly from one language and its regional neighbors.

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If the threat of erasure (in terms of language) was the problem - just like France has institutions designed to protect the French language - then I’d argue early Bionicle actually benefitted the Maori language. Since it exposed a bunch of people to it who never would have gotten to know about it, or cared about it, otherwise.

Misrepresentations can occur as a side-effect of that - some Americans also like to celebrate Octoberfest, thinking it were representative of my country Germany somehow. Then I have the freedom to either a) laugh at their degree of being misinformed :smile: , or b) I accept that they are only, but at least, interested in a certain aspect of my country or culture.

And even if it’s only the language. I’ve repeatedly heard e.g. Swedes appropriating select German words, because they seem to find it “cool” somehow. And not being native speakers, I doubt they always use those words with the proper meaning and context.

If cultural appropriation is a crime you can actually sue somebody for, as it is implied in this context, then equal standards need to apply for everyone in this regard. Equality before the law. By that logic, Vatican representatives would be just as justified to sue lego for their later incorrect use of Latin terms.

Yes, the Turaga were also referred to as “priests” in 2001. Did any Christians sue Lego over that?

And calling a plastic toy a “warrior” (Toa) is better?
Or implying that “TOA” were merely an abbreviation for “technic organic apps”, as the inscription on the Mask of Light in the eponymous movie does? :smile:

What about “knight”? That is also an honorary title you must earn. Not just historically - still to this day, in the United Kingdom. Could Sir Patrick Stewart or Sir Ian McKellen have sued Lego for trivializing their hard-earned titles by applying them to plastic toys that they sold under the brand “Knights’ Kingdom”?

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You seem to not understand what’s the problem. I don’t even know how to respond to this properly. Just some points I want to address:

The Turaga are literally priests. They do ceremonies to honor the Great Spirit and worship him. Also priest is a term that is not bound to Christianity.

Toa are warriors from a narrative perspective. The problem with Tuhonga is that they use the word in a completely wrong context. To make a non-political comparison: it’s like if an alien called every monkey on the planet a human. Even if you were cool with it, that would definitely be upsetting for a bunch of people.

Again: Knights Kingdom shows fictional interpretations of knights. In your example, they even have the word Sir in their name. Thus they at least try to make a historical context and honor the source material. Also knights are a part of western culture. Everyone knows what a knight is around here. I don’t think that if I ask a random guy on the street he would know what a Tuhonga is.
If Bionicle would have expanded further without intervention and would had reached pop culture status, people would probably answer the question with: those villagers from Bionicle, what is completely wrong, where Toa could have been interpreted as: those warriors from Bionicle, what is only partially wrong.

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Would we have known about it without the controversy, though? Certainly less people would have. Food for thought.

So they probably really just should have used the term “Tohunga” for the Turaga instead? :thinking: Retconning Tohunga into Matoran or Turaga into Tohunga, if the latter would then be appropriately used (just like “Toa” for warrior), doesn’t seem like too much of a difference.

I mean, from my perspective that would be a little worse, because the Turaga had already been sold under that name by that point. But I only have that perspective because the only Bionicle products ever “sold” under the name “Tohunga” (the McDonald’s ones) were never available here. From Lego’s perspective, they had to change the name of a product they were already selling either way.

I could see though that taking a term that was established in the lore previously and now using it to describe something else (like “Tohunga” now describes the “Turaga”, and the inhabitants are called “Matoran”, the word “Turaga” just disappears from the lore) could have lead to some confusion among the fans.

Because Bionicle never re-defined a previously established term after that again, right? Like… the original name of its main villain… :rofl:

Didn’t Swinnerton say that Lego had to pay the Maori people a lot of money for “Cultural compensation?”