Time Travel in the Matoran Universe?

LEGO BIONICLE
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NOTE: Feel free to skip to the third paragraph for the start of the actual meat and potatoes of my question.

This question comes about for a sort of dumb reason. I’m currently in the process of revamping my “Bionicharacter” (or whatever you want to call a non-MOC-represented BIONICLE self). My character’s always been sort of bland; basically just a beefed-up version of Tahu Nuva with a huge sword. So I’ve taken that idea, thrown it in a blender with some DBZ and Sonic the Hedgehog influences, and hit “frappe”, producing something a bit leaner, more color-diverse, and overall more unique. (It’s still in a conceptual stage, but I may post an art topic for it at some point.)

Anyways, I was trying to decide which mask to use with the design, and I eventually began to consider the totally-not-fanfictiony-or-cliche idea of establishing my character as a time-traveler from the future, wearing the/a version of the Vahi, with the design using the adapted Kakama Nuva as a representation of that mask. (The idea of repurposing an adapted Kakama as the Vahi actually comes from a friend of mine’s theory involving the adapted masks in general.) I actually really liked the idea, and even drew up some conceptual sketches for the overall design… until I remembered the obvious: the Vahi can’t send you through time; it can only slow or speed up time around a target. Sad Jakura was sad.

But then it got me thinking. Like, really thinking. There must be some sort of time travel in the MU, I thought. There’s dimension-hopping, reincarnation, body-switching, time manipulation, biomechanical-to-mechanical evolution, etc. – all kinds of weird stuff. Surely there has to be a medium with which to travel through time.

I did my research and didn’t find anything. The Vahi is indeed incapable of time travel; the Olmak can only send you throughout the multiverse, or act as a telelporter; there’s no device or vehicle or weapon that can harness time; and there’s no being, Great or otherwise (that I/we know of), that can perform the desired function.
But even before I’d confirmed this through research, I’d already been brainstorming of an alternative; an unlikely alternative, but an alternative nonetheless.

I’m a comic book fan, and as such I like to watch TV shows and movies based on comic books, including CW’s “The Flash”. In the show, the Flash was able to time-travel using his speed. He basically ran until he reached a certain high speed which allowed him to “bend time” and exit reality. Certain velocities can project him a specific distance backwards or forwards in time, and across dimensions, as well.

Well, we all know the MU has a means of achieving great speeds – the Kanohi Kakama, or in what would be my character’s case, a Kakama Nuva. The latter of these is capable of greater speed than the former, the top speed of which is undefined*. The Kakama Nuva even provides the user with heightened reflexes and senses, as well as the ability to pass through solid objects by rapidly vibrating one’s molecules – all powers that are possessed by the Flash. (The very fact that the Nuva version allows its user to phase through things lends itself well to my idea that the speed capable with it is on the same level as the Flash, meaning time travel could be possible, too.)

So the big question, if not already obvious at this point, is: Can one use a Kanohi Kakama - or at the least a Kakama Nuva - to achieve enough speed to travel through time? (Using the method (or one like it) from “The Flash”, specifically.)

(Just to be clear, we can only assume this is possible by accepting two hypotheses: 1) the ability to “bend time” via high speeds is possible in the MU [not necessarily in real life since we aren’t discussing about reality], and 2) the Kakama Nuva can allow the user to achieve the speed necessary to perform the action.

I’m hoping there are some fellow BIONICLE fans who know more about this stuff than I do that can help provide me with a clear answer. I’m not aware if the Flash-time ability is based on real science or not, but it was the only example I had on my mind to go off of. I’d appreciate any thoughts anybody has on the subject. And of course I only bothered to cite one fiction example of time travel via speed; I’m sure there are more fictional examples, and maybe even a real-life theory or two. If that’s the case, I’d like to hear about it/them.

But yes, discuss away. Or blow me away with a simple answer telling me everything I think I know is wrong. I’d appreciate either choice.

*Based on some discussion on BZP, it seems that an ordinary Kakama might be possible of allowing its user to move at a few times the speed of sound; and that’s not even described as the limit. Not to mention that the Kakama Nuva’s more powerful than even that…

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Isn’t the flash’s time travel ability related closer to the “speed force” where he gets his speed rather than the speed it self? So instead of if he goes this fast he goes back in time it’s if he goes this fast he can then use the speed force (something that doesn’t exist in the Bionicle universe) to travel back in time. There was an animated movie (I think it’s on netflix) called the flash point paradox revolving entirely about the flash going back in time, so you might be able to get better clarity from there.

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I was wondering if somebody would ask this, and I do have an answer. From what I understand, yes, the Speedforce played a role in the Flash’s initial abilities to time travel. But after discussing it recently with a friend of mine who’s a bigger fan of the Flash and knows more than I do, he told me that the Flash in the TV show was able to travel through time for reasons other than the Speedforce. Apparently the show (and perhaps other mediums) explained it as being some sort of speed-time “superhighway” (separate from the Speeforce) that, when broken into, can be used to traverse time.

This is how I understood it, anyways. I may be wrong. I’ll be doing more research on the subject either way.

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Yeah now i think about it i think that’s how it was explained in that movie. The thing is we have to assume is that this highway exists in the bionicle universe and with what we know about time in the bionicle universe I don’t think it would. I mean we have a great mask that can pierce dimensions yet time travel is beyond even a legendary mask?

I think for time travel to work in the bionicle universe the mask would have to rewind the entire universe or even multiverse with brute force (something that would take a ridiculous amount of power) rather than going through a portal or rip into an earlier time. Although this is all speculation on how time powers would work so you probably say there is a superhighway without anything disproving you.

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That’s the hardest part of my question, since I am basically assuming that the “time-rip” could occur in the BIONICLE universe. But you’re 100% right. I don’t have any proof or evidence for it, so it’s really all just a big “what if” scenario. But as I said in my initial post, if anybody has another idea for the concept I’d love to hear it.

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I’m sure you could create a time traveler without time rips. Like I said it should just require a lot of time power. The character could use the Vahi as a sort of catalyst turning an immense amount of power he attains from somewhere into time power so he can time travel. This could also plug some plot holes like “why doesn’t he just time travel to solve the problem” because it require so much power it’s a more of a one and done sort of thing. The question is where would he get the power to time travel from though.

Oh and I just remembered. Remember how DC did the Bionicle comic books? Well because of that the Toa mata got an Easter egg in a green lantern comic so it’s possible to say they share the same universe, meaning Bionicle could take actually take place in the DC universe meaning the Speed force and superhighway do exsist in the Bionicle universe. I guess It depends on whether or not you consider the easter egg to mean it’s cannon that the DC and Bionicle universe are the same.

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I don’t think that’s considered canon, but dang - that’s a good point nonetheless, and once I certainly didn’t think of. Thanks for bringing it up!

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If a Kakama can reach 88 miles per hour, I think it’s possible to travel through time. :wink:

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As long as a Toa of Lightning is there to help out. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Hypothetically time travel is possible by getting beyond the speed of light.

However the Kakama nowhere near that. (though how exactly fast it is is unknown)

Though Pohatu got light speed from contact with photok so if someohow he could improve that already great speed then the answer is maybe.

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The element of light could move at the speed of light. So, hypothetically, if you gave a toa of light a Kakama, could he time travel?

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By your logic, no. The “element” of light can move at the speed of light. Not necessarily the user.

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Okay, now I’m disappointed. :c

We know the regular Kakama could let the user go really fast, but I’m not sure if the Kakama Nuva increased that maximum speed or only let others use the power as well. If it did, you might be achieving Sanik-Speedz here, but you’d have to have the power of about 20 of them to go as fast as time.

We know that the Kakama Nuva allowed for the manipulation of physical form, but that was mostly because Farshtey was really creative and such.

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Nope.

It’s not in the powerset of the Vahi, but it is not beyond a Kanohi’s capabilities.

Y’all are forgetting the Mohtrek. 13 posts and no one has mentioned the Mohtrek. I’m disappointed in all of you.
/s

But yeah, time travel is possible with the Mohtrek, though maybe not the kind you want. That said, if it’s possible, we know there definitely is a “superhighway” or some equivalent, so there has to be some other way to achieve it, right? Well…

Let’s see, how can we increase speed without a Kakama? Ooh, I know, Chargers!
(yes, I have names of random Matoran Weapons from 06 memorized)
So, this would obviously require two people at the minimum, but it is doable: have Photok (or other Av-Matoran with similar power) contact your character, giving them light-speed. Then, simply have someone, either the Av-Matoran or someone else, use the Chargers to increase your character’s speed.

This is, of course, assuming the Chargers increase speed and not just natural speed. If they don’t, though, the Vahi can still work: if you speed up time around your character while they are moving at light-speed, then they are, in effect, moving past light-speed.

~W12~

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BS01’s wording on the Kakama Nuva’s article implies that said mask is indeed faster. Of course, that doesn’t make it canon. But going off the second thing you said about Farshtey being creative: even if that was just him making things up for added coolness or power, the ability to phase through solid forms could still be explained in-universe as a result of increased speed, especially since an ordinary Kakama can’t perform that action. Basically what I’m saying is, if a K Nuva can phase through objects due to its superiority to the ordinary K, the reason behind it (whether intended by Greg or not) is almost required to be a speed increase. Now because this is fictional world and we don’t have much to go off of, it’s hard, if not impossible, to gauge the speed change. That being said, as I linked in my original post, it’s somewhat proven that the ordinary Kakama could allow its user to move many times past the speed of sound - and that’s never even confirmed as its top capable speed. So it’s not out of the realm of probability that the K Nuva’s speed increase is enough to allow time travel. If, of course, the entire speed-time superhighway theory can be applied to this universe.

As I’ve said multiple times already, this is all founded upon a theory that really has no evidence to it in the universe itself. Call it a “just for fun” theory if you want.

Ah, thanks for making this point! I’ll add the fact to my initial post.

Good point about the Chargers! Thing is, they may not be necessary. Since none of this is confirmed or official, we can speculate that light speed is all we need to access the superhighway, not “past-light speed”.

This also allows us a little revelation. When combined with Pohatu Nuva, Photok was able to increase the former’s speed to that of light without the need for special weaponry. This means two things. One, this confirms the Kakama Nuva can’t achieve light speed on its own (obvious to most of you already, probably). Two, if the aforementioned superhighway is indeed a thing, then a Kakama (Nuva)-bearer in partnership with a “Photok” of his/her own would probably be able to access the superhighway (without the need for Chargers or other tools, maybe?).

So, let’s throw my Bionicharacter into the mix here. He is a Nuva. A feasible/sensible mask for him would be the Kakama Nuva. For him to time-travel, he needs to reach light speed, but he can’t do it alone - he needs help. So he recruits the help of one of two things: an Av-Matoran with abilities like Photok’s, or said Av-Matoran with Chargers or like weapons. (Depending on if we need to reach light speed or past-light speed.) Jakura Nuva and Photok link together, and they’re basically good to go. If they need to get past-light speed, then as mentioned Photok will be carrying Chargers or something(s) similar. So that’s that - they’ll have accomplished their goal, provided there’s nothing preventing it.

Going off of this sub-theory, we have to assume that the superhighway will simply become accessible through top speed. This wouldn’t work if the superhighway had to be entered through a special method after reaching top speed. That being said, some good progress has been made in this thought process.

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Just a thought: I always assumed that Photok gave Pohatu this ability because Photok also had a mask of speed. So, hypothetically, any Av-Matoran with a Kakama can increase a Toa’s Speed.

This might be why Greg never had these two use this power to it’s full extent – Solek, Tanma, and possibly Gavla and Radiak all used their Av-Powers, but Photok’s was only ever used one time.

Not necessarily.

It could be that it’s simply more control over the speed – i.e. he was able to move each of his individual atoms so that they didn’t hit any of the atoms of whatever he was passing through. Which is also possible in our world*. Now, why this power is in the powerset of a Mask of speed is beyond me.

*Yes, it’s possible that someone could pass through a wall if all of their atoms lined up in such a way that they miss all of the atoms in the wall. Possible, but so astronomically unlikely that it’s not going to happen without outside influence.

~W12~

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Av-Matoran can’t use Masks of Power, though; and none of the other Av-Matoran’s combined powers were related to their Kanohi, So I was always under the impression that that abilities the Phantoka/Mistika gained were due to another factor. Namely just the fact that the Av-Matoran were “special”.

Yes, I suppose that’s a possible reason.
It’s explained in the DC Universe that the reason the Flash can phase through things is because he moves his atoms at such a rapid rate - by vibrating his entire form - that they manage to line up in the perfect form to allow him to pass through. Whether or not that’s actually plausible (as if anything we’re discussing is plausible) is beyond me, but that’s the explanation given. I assume the same reasoning was applied to Pohatu Nuva.