Toa Hagah Canon Contest Format Feedback

[Makuta_Luroka]

@Tarkur

No my point was that a replica can never be as perfect as the real thing especially not when we are talking about Lego bionicle parts.

And I’m saying that is not a good point at all. When a replica can do as much as the real thing and look cleaner and better, then why restrict it to the real thing

[Tarkur]

Whats wrong with the original piece? Or do you just want a loop hole for custom builds kinda feels that way, please correct me if I’m wrong

[TheJerminator]

@Mesonak

I think the distinction between “looking like a Metru build” and “being a Metru build” is important to discuss

If that’s the case, then I think it’s worth pointing out that the original quote only says “Metru-styled”, not a “Metru build”.

[Makuta_Luroka]

I don’t want a “loop hole.” I just don’t see the value in restricting the contest to using a rigid formula for a basic and uninspired torso design

[Dag]

@Mesonak

For what it’s worth, @Dag, I think your build definitely falls into one of those cases that justifies having the discussion. It proves something like that could conceivably work and that custom torsos could totally be fine in theory. I just think it’s a hard thing to like… regulate and enforce, which is probably why we won’t go with it in the end.

I greatly appreciate it, but can you elaborate on what you mean by “we won’t go with it in the end”? It sounds to me that custom builds will end up being disqualified, but surely that’s not the case, or else this discussion is pointless.

[Tarkur]

I do see alot of custom torsos that does a worse job than the Metru torso. There isn’t any featured in this topic but they exist in the community. Also as Mesonak said its harder to enforce or regulate custom torsos so the molded parts seems like the clear winner here

[Makuta_Luroka]

that’s not a good point. Just because some custom mocs are worse than the original, then all custom should be disqualified? What kind of logic is that?

[Winger]

so I would then ask, @Makuta_Luroka, why a metru build is called a metru build in the first place.

[Keplers]

@TheJerminator

And the Toa Metru used different ones.

If you’re worried about the Hagah looking cohesive, rather than the “Metru build” rules, it’s worth pointing out that Norik and Iruini are less than half of the Toa Hagah. Two samples isn’t enough to form conclusions about the rest of them. The Visorak had a 2-2-2 split on the shins, after all.

But this is the Hagah contest, not the Metru one. While you’re technically right, we have only the Hagah to serve as a precedent for the Hagah. It is best to assume that what varies between Norik and Iruini is all that varies between them as a whole.

[Tarkur]

Same could be said for the whole argument of custom. Why bend canon just so you can go nuts with a tlrso design ehen canon has clear guidelines for the characters

[SteveTheSquid]

You don’t need to enforce it at all. If this total mess of a comments section is to be believed at all, then any build that strays from the uncustom set template will lose horribly. And if it turns out that this comments section is a loud and rude minority? Then they can vote and lose. No sense in giving them a chance to rig the vote. The rest of us know how to vote in good faith for builds that “look like a metru torso”.

Prefab armor choices and weapon build aren’t enough to elevate this from a crude popularity/presentation contest, which the two prior rounds have already come dangerously close to being even when the entries were diverse. Yes you can count that as a point towards not having a moc contest at all, but that’s only if you reject custom builds as a given, which I don’t think is a given. Let people vote with their votes, not peer pressure.

[Mesonak]

@Dag

I greatly appreciate it, but can you elaborate on what you mean by “we won’t go with it in the end”? It sounds to me that custom builds will end up being disqualified, but surely that’s not the case, or else this discussion is pointless.

I say “probably” just because that’s the way the winds are blowing at this point and where my headspace is at. Nothing is 100% binding until we make a concrete rules topic, y’know what I mean?

That being the case, unless a persuasive argument for why it could be the case develops, we’re going to mandate a “Metru build” of some sort. As far as what form that takes… because of the reasons I outlined in my post, that will likely involve a skeleton requirement. I just don’t see a way, in my head, to outline a ruleset where custom torso builds could be allowed that wouldn’t either:

1. End up with people trying to exploit inevitable loopholes in wording to get designs through that don’t align with the Hagah design scheme
2. Look out of place next to Iruini and Norik, defeating the purpose
3. Require us to selectively and subjectively pass “judgment” on whether MoCs fit the bill or not (which I don’t think anybody would be a fan of, including myself)

It seems simpler and better overall, to me, to mandate the skeleton and let all the extra design elements be where the personality comes in. But yeah, nothing is 100% set in stone yet.

[Tarkur]

Are you literally saying people who refuse custom torsos for this contest are incompetent voters? Seems a bit harsh.

[Makuta_Luroka]

and that right there encapsulates exactly my reasoning for not having a canon contest in the first place. There are good custom mocs, even when there is a canon depiction of a character, but if you’re going to say that it is innately devalued by not being the original, then what is the point of having a canon and a custom at the same time.

[Atobe_Brick]

@Tarkur

so the molded parts seems like the clear winner here

If the Hagah contests are run like the prior two, then I say that moccists should be allowed to use a custom torso, and a custom sheild as long as those things are corrected in the art portion. It would make the contests more accessible to more people, and besides, if this is the way that contest will be run, the moc won’t be canonized anyway.

If Mocs have the potential to be canonized, then I think that custom torsos and custom shields should be forbidden

[Winger]

@SteveTheSquid

You don’t need to enforce it at all. If this total mess of a comments section is to be believed at all, then any build that strays from the uncustom set template will lose horribly. And if it turns out that this comments section is a loud and rude minority? Then they can vote and lose. No sense in giving them a chance to rig the vote. The rest of us know how to vote in good faith for builds that “look like a metru torso”.

Adversely, it could be possible that people that interpret a metru build as not using the piece where it gets it’s name from are the loud, and possibly also rude, minority.

Your opinion, no matter how obviously correct it may seem to you, does not necessarily mean you can’t be in error.

[SteveTheSquid]

Ok. How about we put it to a vote instead of making a rule?

[Winger]

sounds good to me

[Keplers]

That’s… literally what we’re doing.

[Tarkur]

Why the point of bending canon in a canon contest? Seems a bit redundant don’t you think? Also its baffiling how hard it is to understand the simple premiss of metru builds