fair point, perhaps not the best way to illustrate my argument. I agree with you there and retract that point.
You heard it here first, folks: if your moc breaks the rules, you don’t get DQ’d. You get executed.
2 Likes
Finally made it to the bottom of this Mata Nui forsaken thread…
*phew need to catch my breath
that’s a lot of opinions, essays and arguments to take in.
I think looking back at the previous two contests the Moc then art thing worked for me personally and even in the Artahka contest things were ironed out more and I think will get better with more use and refining.
I think Mesos analysis and restatement sold me on staying with Moc then art-or at least keeping the Moc aspect.
The measurement guideline and perhaps metru torso would surely keep Mocs somewhat matching to the Hagah and although someone could make a greebley thing in those dimensions perhaps some other rules would prevent that.
Personally I want to see a diverse team, a team that looks like they could have come from all over the universe-and I’m confident that can be done while still having metru based builds.
Idk just my two cents
I’m not that good at persuasive writing
2 Likes
This is especially worth considering: we had a system that was working and getting better with use. There’s an adage about not fixing what isn’t broken.
That’s a good sentiment to hear repeated: it is possible to have a Metru build and still look diverse.
lol you’ve beaten out most of your competition thus far and we’re almost 900 messages in
2 Likes
This is not primarily a Moccing contest its a canon contest restrictions are going to be made when neccesary to avoid unneccesary canon bending entries. If you want to do a moccontest might I suggest any other currently up and running moccontest, hey enter into Biocup if you’d like there the whole goal is to go nuts
I wouldn’t argue LEGOs Metallic colors should be mandated for all we know their armor is made of precious metals exactly what those metals are or what color they have we don’t know but for sake of argument not all metals need to be shiny take for example Sokkas sword from Avatar which is a ficticious metal and its completely black so my point is that because of this why limit the options for color. People could always give the non metallic colors metallic shades for the art portion. I’m not saying that precious metals isn’t part of the Hagahs looks or it isn’t importat to their characters but rather that Precious metal doesn’t need to be LEGO Metallic colors as is further enhanced by my example with Sokkas sword. Precious metals could be any color as a we have no real idea if there exist more ficticious metals than protodermis or protosteal in th Matoran Universe or that the Matoran universe lacks ficticious metals.
However mantating a similar color distribution to the ones found on the set form Hagah is to me a more agreeable rule.
1 Like
You are right about the Visorak limbs. However, even the Visorak do use the metru thigh armor piece. Literally every canister set of 2004 and 2005 that has thigh armor use the metru thigh armor piece. It is ubiquitous and a staple of that era. Any Toa Hagah moc without those would not fit into the aesthetic of the era IMO.
2 Likes
I agree 100%. The word in caps in the title should be ‘canon’.
This time it will be an art only contest, next - MOC only.
1 Like
I still think we should have a moc portion for this contest to keep the art in check. However it should alway be empahised that this is a CANON contest as such both art and mocs should avoid canon bending as much as humanly possible
1 Like
I believe Norik and Iruini are enough as ‘an inspiration’.
1 Like
That’s fair I think Norik and Iruni can serve as inspirations in both mediums
1 Like
Adding to that, the Visorak limbs never affected the play function. Changing a Hagah forearm (particularly the spear arm) is tantamount to changing a Piraka forearm, completely throwing off one of the set wave’s decisive functions.
1 Like
For me, it wouldn’t make sense to have a Bionicle character contest without any actual Bionicles.
Also, I don’t see how making a more customized Hagah arm is “canon bending”. Nothing in canon says that the arms have to be a specific way. Sure, the two sets we have set a pattern, but multiple times in official Bionicle sets patterns have been broken.
If we never saw Pohatu Mata, and had a canon contest for his appearance, would you allow the upside-down torso design? It breaks the pattern, but it was still good enough for Lego designers.
The argument you present doesn’t correlate with the evidence you presented alongside it. While you’re technically quite right that patterns have been broken before in official set waves, the evidence you give for that is the reconfiguration of an existing piece — that is, no pattern is broken at all.
As far as the sets go, play function has never been up for alteration. All Mata have gears (two of whom have dual-wield gears), all Piraka have flip-out wrists, all Inika have four-shot Zamors, etc. Part of the play function for the Hagah is their unique wrist ball, which uses a flip-out, vertical-only function like the Piraka. Changing that specific aspect of the sets would detract from the play functions and therefore compromise the cohesion of the sets as a wave.
My point is that there is no canon requirement that certain patterns have to be met. A lot of those patterns you list are there to be selling points for the wave. In other words, it’s a marketing-based position, not a canon-based position.
If you only want to vote for mocs that follow the pattern exactly that’s fine, but I see no reason why following canon would require that certain patterns be met.
Besides, from a story based position it makes sense. The Hagah all come from different teams, so it makes sense if there’s a bit of variation between them. To me, it seems a bit coincidental that they all happen to be Metru builds anyways.
So you hold, then, that the appearance of a set has less bearing on the canonical appearance of the character it purports to depict because some of its aesthetic decisions were based on LEGO’s marketing strategy? That doesn’t really jive with either precedent or common sense.
1 Like
I don’t know what you are implying. Of course marketability had an impact on set designs, I don’t see why that’s such a hot take.
My whole point is that just because there is a pattern doesn’t mean there is a rule. Making all the Hagah follow the pattern exactly is a purely aesthetic choice, and should be a matter for the vote, not the rules.
That statement in itself isn’t at all a hot take. Using that statement to claim that we should hold the sets’ play function as unimportant to the wave and that the sets’ appearance is less canon due to that statement is a bizarre direction to take, though.
I’d like to note, as some people have said here, that we are effectively designing the remaining four sets in a six-set wave of characters that very likely could have existed in G1’s official run. Shouldn’t they therefore share certain play functions like the other sets of the wave? Your suggestion is tantamount to suggesting that because the Bohrok neck extension was solely for marketing, a hypothetical Bohrok MOC in a canon contest shouldn’t be required to have an extending neck.
If I understand Keplers correctly, I think he means that the four remaining Toa Hagah should look like the two ones we have had as sets. Therefore, the play features of the set should be kept as is as much as the general aesthetics. Keplers is even more purist that I originally was, as I only cared about the general aesthetics, of which the thigh armor is mandatory IMO. I never thought about the play feature. Now that I have, I agree with him. This part should not be changed either.
2 Likes
This is false. The extending neck is a canon power, so any canon set must accommodate this canon power.
Unlike this, there is absolutely nothing in the canon story that absolutely requires that the Hagah armor must be a specific shape. In that case it is a purely aesthetic choice.
As my analogy was apparently insufficient, I’ll just plead to others: the Piraka wrist that functions identically to the Hagah’s, or the Mata gears.
But the vahki or rahkshi legs, even the piraka legs can be attached in such away that the “function” as you call it is still intact. So I don’t really see your metru legs for forearms restrictions arguement.