The earlier conversation was not exactly on the same subject, actually.
I started the topic of Hydraxon’s mask by stating that the contest would give us a one of a kind opportunity to canonize the Hydraxon’s faceplate part as a Kanohi of unknown power. The idea was to have whoever crafted Hydraxon’s armor reuse the shape of that kanohi for Hydraxon’s faceplate. That particular idea does not work because Greg very specifically stated that the faceplate was not based off an existing Kanohi.
@Tarkur suggested that it could still work as a Hagah mask if Hydraxon himself was the hero that they honored. This is the way that @Mesonak seem to have taken with respect to this issue. I’m still torn because Origin of the Rahaga seems to state that it must be a Kanohi shape, not just any shape of anyone’s face or helmet, but at the same time I’d still kinda like to use it ha ha.
I do, but as has been said, this is a canon contest and I’m prioritising consistency with the extant models over spectacle of build.
If these were just separate characters, confirmed to be Metru builds but with no existing models, then I’d be more accepting of the more outlandish designs that are still within the limits. But since we have Norik and Iruini, it becomes a little more complex.
All my respect to people that do want to push the limits of what technically fits in the rules, but when it comes to characters that are part of established groups of sets, consistency with those sets is my priority.
If, for example, TTV decided to hold a contest to decide the appearance of Gar, I’d be looking exclusively for MOCs that are legitimately just recolours of Dekar or Defilak, with the one exception of eyepieces because I don’t think anyone displays their Mahritoran without adding eyes. Same with Dezalk, I’m aware that a VNOG sprite has been canonised as him, but if he were given a contest I’d want the winner to look like he could’ve been released alongside the Voyatoran in 2006.
When it comes to shields, LEGO has kind of shown them held in three ways.
They way they’re held in box art renders and promo-set pictures is on the right; on the left is how the original instructions present it, which ends up upside-down. In the middle is how it’s held according to the correction note included in some releases of the sets, which tells you to flip the shield… on the wrong axis?
While I believe both instruction versions are erroneous (thus the correction note, which is evidently erroneous by also being backwards), this clearly shows even the official sets don’t show a clear way of how to hold them.
Oops, you’re right. I missed this part of the conversation as it happened between one of your post I was replying to and my own reply.
So the point has actually been brought up before @Mesonak’s reply and Hydraxon’s faceplate is allowed anyway, in spite of the fact that it is not actually a Kanohi and therefore canonically incompatible with the text from Origin of the Rahaga ?
Hey dudes! That was all great convo that I missed last night. Sorry to be a bother, but I noticed that Meso didn’t mention my backwards torso design in the Great Wall of Text at 5am(!). I totally understand not mentioning it then, 5am is late for anyone. Stuff slips through the cracks, or needs extra deliberation. I’m assuming FuzzMuffins’ design not being DQed for the unorthodox concept implies that a backwards torso would also be allowed, but I’d like to get a clearcut answer before the submission period, you know? I made sure to ask this question nice and early this week so I wouldn’t have to scramble during the submission process.
Also, I’m 90% sure the Metru Pelvis restriction is still hard, and that Kiina-type upper torso constructions probably won’t be allowed for in the final ruleset. I’m just gonna say that I would only want a lift on that restriction for upside down torsos. HOWEVER, I also wouldn’t prefer it, but a more popular POV the crowd seems to be taking is wanting Vahki torsos be allowed. Again, I wouldn’t prefer it, but I would like that better than nothing, it would give arms more room to rotate upwards without clanging down unto the gear teeth on the Metru torso, and it’d allow for two lateral mounting pin holes for chest armor to be more easily applied.
Apart from that, reading over the updated rules Meso posted, I like most of them! I don’t see why forearm shields should be banned, but I wasn’t going to use that technique anyway.
Again, no hard feelings for missing the backwards torso, I just want a clear answer sometime before the submission period. Thanks!
Thank you for responding @Mesonak . Yes, perhaps I could have worded it differently. What I meant by “prior standards” was that all the major aspects of the MOC are translated into artwork and shouldn’t be substantially changed. This includes the mask.
The two contests that were held up to this point happened to be exceptions because actual design of new masks was being determined, so changing of placeholders and original designs were justified.
However, this is not the case in this specific contest, and even less so with the free-for-all format.
Anyone can enter either pre-existing mask design, variation of pre-existing mask design, 3d-printed new design, or custom built new design. None of these determines the actual look of a Kanohi, only a selected look of Hagah masks. The final group artwork should only serve to reimagine them in a singular style, and in case of 3d-printed parts, make them passable in the eyes of BS01.
I understand the benefits of creative liberty for those making the group shot, but it comes at the unnecessary expense of creative liberty for those participating in the free-for-all portion.
If the rules do change to stick with the same masks in the 2nd phase, then at the very least allow them to be reimagined. I’m saying this in particular for cases where for instance, a Mask of Sensory Aptitude is used, the artist should be free to reimagine it from how it is depicted in the comic art, as opposed to being stuck with how the 3D modeller reimagined the comic art.
Wouldn’t it be fine then to allow the use of mask pieces from the banned mask list, too? With the understanding that they have to be changed for the final art?
Because a mask in an unmatching colour will not really be beneficial to a MOC, I’d expect. A MOC with a forbidden mask that instead looks good stands better chances in my eyes. Also if anyone wants to build a good-looking dark gold Hagah, they’re basically stuck to Lhikan’s Hau at the moment. And what if they don’t want a Hau? Easiest solution: slap on an Avohkii and leave it to the final artist.
Please don’t.
As it is, any new shape is just an unknown mask power. In this scenario though, it would be unknown if it was an unknown mask power or standard shape. That’s even worse!
Unless Greg is willing to canonize the mask power, retconning the wrong shape rule will only make things worse. (Except for pouks, of course)
The restriction feels contrived and unnecessary but that’s an absolute pipe dream. I probably would’ve left the mask shapes and other descriptions up to participant interpretation but fans scouring through old forum quotes put the kibosh on that.
My friend @doni and I were hoping to submit ours but we’re not sure what masks are good replacements. I’m sure a few will look okay on Pouks but a lot of them seem so… uninteresting. Again, I respect and understand why canon contests have certain restrictions. Best of luck everyone
I think allowing for Mask changes is a good idea, simply because, for example, a lot of people will use lhikan’s Hau. Imagine if two, three, or even four Hagah wound up with the Same Mask.
While I get what you’re saying, this feels a little disingenuous to me. “Vote for my moc, it has a cool mask! Ignore the fact that the art will be required to change the mask anyway.”
You do raise a good point about dark gold masks, though I’d argue that you can still use a mask that matches their base color (I.e. a black mask for bomonga)
I would be really glad if this happened. Not nessisarily that Pouks canonically has the standard mask of emulation, but rather that there’s a possibility that he, like Iruini has a standard mask shape.
I feel like so many people have imagined Pouks to have the standard mask of emulation for years, and to my knowledge, the retcon wouldn’t really affect the story at all.
I strongly disagree. The fact that one Hagah, let alone two, have the same Mask they’re using as the hero they’re honouring, is statistically unlikely.
As someone said earlier: one is an exception, two is a trend. At that point, we’re going against the whole purpose of the Hagah’s masks in the story, just to do what some people want to do.
Yes, some people imagine pouks with the MoE. That’s not the case in the story, and it shouldn’t be, IMO.
