Toa Hagah Canon Contest Ruleset Feedback

LEGO BIONICLE
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Hello everybody; we’re back once again. The purpose of this topic is to give you guys an update on the Hagah contest, our chosen format based off feedback gathered from the prior topic, and a list of rules that we’ve drafted up for you guys to give feedback on. I know lots of people had thoughts and opinions about rules in the prior contests, so this is your opportunity to voice them now; for clarification’s sake, all rules from this topic still stand, in addition to new ones which I will list below. I’ll be leaving this topic open until Saturday at 11:59 PM Eastern Time, at which point we’ll be closing it down and moving forward with things.

First, however, is an update addressing feedback from the prior topic. You guys stepped up and delivered a metric ton of useful responses in that topic, and I thank you all for the absolutely massive amount of posts and opinions you gave, as well as those who voted in the survey. Generally speaking, as we predicted, the concept of an art-only contest for the Hagah proved unpopular, as it would alienate MoCists from participating. The main source of contention boiled down to which format things should take, as well as restrictions on build types to adhere to canon accuracy. We’ve made a decision on both, which is as follows:

There will be some restrictions to the Hagah builds in order to adhere to canon accuracy and have coherence with Norik and Iruini, but not to the degree that some were suggesting. We believe in creative freedom when possible, and ultimately we did not see a good enough reason to restrict things too far past the Metru. The full list of restrictions will be found below. To those who sought custom designs, I’m sorry; there were some good points made and we took them all into account, but ultimately, we didn’t see the merit for this contest when it would cause so much friction with Greg’s prior outline and the community at large for, ultimately, not that much of a benefit. I promise you that our subsequent contests will be free of these restrictions.

On the subject of format, we still believe in viewing these as “canon contests” and not “building” or “artwork” contests where the best drawn art piece or best designed MoC automatically wins. If the past contests (and the dialogue surrounding custom torsos for this one) have taught us anything, it’s that there are some people who view these contests like any other community creation challenge, when, in fact, these have very different goals. The goal is not necessarily about voting on the best designed creation, but rather voting on the best depiction of these characters, what entry best represents them, and what works best as their canon design. To some, that might not be too big of a distinction, but to us, it definitely does matter, so to achieve that purpose…

We will be moving forward with Option 3 for the Toa Hagah contests, the “Free-for-All,” as outlined in my prior document. Essentially, MoCs and artwork will compete against each other in Character-specific polls to determine the best overall representation of each Hagah, with a group art contest being held after the fact to depict all four winning designs in the same artistic style.

We know there are some who expressed concerns with this format, but after reviewing all the feedback, we believe this is the best way to express the unique needs of the Hagah contest. Too many people expressed distaste at the build restrictions because they view these contests as MoC contests first, canon contests second. Ultimately, that’s not the case, and we believe this is the most honest approach for the Hagah specifically. This will not be the path used moving forward, but it is our utmost belief that a unique shake-up to the format like this will best deliver the overall message we wish to get across with these and help the community pick the best designs. As I said in my prior post, judging the two mediums against each other to determine the best overall representation for each character just seems like a more honest vision of what our goals actually are for this particular contest, and might make for a better overall result, with people hopefully prioritizing canon accuracy and design preference (mask, armor design, armor arrangement, color balancing, weapon design, etc.) over things like MoCing complexity or artwork style.

With that aside, that just leaves the rules. As mentioned prior, in addition to the rules listed in this topic, here are the guidelines for the Toa Hagah Canon Contest:

Your entries MUST:

  • Utilize the upper portion and lower portion of the Toa Metru torso build as it is intended. (I.e. Not as hips or shoulders, etc.)
  • Have the primary color correspond with the respective Toa’s Rahaga.
  • Feature a shield. Art must render the specific Hagah Shield piece, and MOCs may opt for a custom shield. It must be either held in one hand or on a characters back.
  • Feature a spear. Cannot be substantially longer or shorter than the preexisting Hagah spears.
  • Must feature metallic armor. Armor may not be standard colors. (I.e. Mata Red, Metru blue, etc)
  • Have metallic armor placement that is in parity with the two preexisting Toa Hagah sets. This means the metallic armor is restricted to the feet, thighs, chest, shoulders, mask, shield, and spear tip.
  • Only have a single shade of metallic armor.

Your entries MUST NOT:

Summary

-Jutlin
-Avsa
-Mohtrek
-Crast
-Mutated Felnas
-Mutated Shelek
-Mask of Scavenging
-Kraahkan
-Avohkii
-Olisi
-Mask of Light and Shadow
-Tryna
-Ignika
-Vahi
-Mask of Creation (G1 and G2)
-Any Nuva Mask
-Mask of Aging
-Mask of Incomprehension
-Mask of Undeath
-Shapeshifted Mask of Mutation
-Any Glatorian or Agori helmet
-Hero Factory 2.0 and 3.0 helmets
-Mask of Ultimate Power (G2)

As stated by Eljay:

Again, these rules, as well as the overall contest rules, aren’t binding at this time. This topic exists to aggregate feedback on our contest rules as a whole, some of which numerous people have expressed ire with in the past, as well as these Hagah specific rules. If we’re presented with good reasons to make changes or some solid suggestions for alternative wording, we’re of course open to considering them and making adjustments within the four days this topic will be up. If not, though, this will be what we go forward with.

Thanks to all of you for your continued patience and feedback! This will be the final period before the Hagah contest begins, and I’m looking forward to it. :smiley:

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To elaborate on our reasoning for the list of disallowed Kanohi:

This contest is very different since the Hagah are a rare case. Their masks can be any shape under the sun and still be considered canon. As that’s the case, it is possible that either MOCs or art can feature a mask design that wouldn’t need to be changed.

So, if both MOCs and Art can feature a final mask design that wouldn’t need to be changed, what happens if a Toa Hagah features a mask that wouldn’t canonically make sense? That is where the list comes in. It features masks that are unknown to the Hagah, impossible for a prior hero to have worn, or are considered immoral by Toa on account of their power set, not their association with the Makuta.

We hope that makes sense as we move forward. We’re open to hearing good arguments as to which masks do and do not belong there, however we are fairly satisfied with the final list.

Additionally, we are tossing around the issue of 3D printed masks on winning Hagah, since they’d still be allowed. Right now, we feel that it makes sense to allow artists (for the final group shot that would become canon) the ability to change any custom or 3D printed mask on a Toa Hagah to a mask of their design/choice, but not make that modification if the mask is a preexisting one that released in sets. We’re looking for more feedback on this, so please offer your thoughts.

Thank you all for understanding and working with us on this,

-Eljay

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Personally not a -huge- fan of these if I were planning on entering the contest, but otherwise it seems like a pretty good compromise. A few notes:

Does this mean one couldn’t submit an entry with a Onua-styled torso?

I don’t see why a shield couldn’t be mounted on the forearm. It’s just another way to modify character design without making a huge change.

(emphasis mine)

What is the differentiation between “shoulder” and bicep? Especially if gearbox-shoulders aren’t required.

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Gotta say I’m pretty happy with these rules.

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I’m glad that it’s going to be a FFA, and overall, I’m pretty happy with these rules.

I don’t understand why some masks, like the Mask of Aging are not allowed. As I understand it, it’s their power that makes them immoral, not their shape.

Would the shinier colors on the rahkshi be allowed? How about the colors on the toa mata canister lids?

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  • Have metallic armor placement that is in parity with the two preexisting Toa Hagah sets. This means the metallic armor is restricted to the feet, thighs, chest, shoulders, mask, shield, and spear tip.

People are gonna add metallic shin armour. No real point asking if its allowed because its just gonna happen either way.

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Just to be clear on what this entails, does this mean it must be a literal spear, or can it be any polearm that’s identical to Norik or Iruini’s except in what its head looks like? So, for instance, if we use any of the following as the weapon’s head…

  • Gali’s hook piece (to make it a…hook…thing)
  • Pohatu Nuva’s claw piece (to make it a bident)
  • Kopaka Nuva’s blade (to make it a glaive)
  • Carapar’s claw (to make it a scythe)
  • that one axe from KKII (to make it a halberd)
  • a Bohrok tooth (to make it…something???)
  • Turaga Onewa’s hammer (to make it…well, a hammer)

…would any of these options get DQ’d?

Moreover, are we allowed to have the piece oriented at a right angle with one of those angled Technic connectors (this or this) so we can, for example, make it a warhammer or scythe?

I’m just asking because I want to know if this rule just means literal spears or if it encompasses more broad options than it sounds like it does, since some people seemed like they wanted to give one of the Hagah an axe or something instead of a spear, and Norik’s weapon is itself more like an axe than a proper spear.

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How finished does an art entry have to be?

Are we going for an illustration or concept/orthographics acceptable?

Concern is entrant’s desire to enter in the initial design + to also participate in the full group portion.

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Generally sounds good to me! Just a couple clarifications and questions:

So would “doing a Pohatu” be allowed (similar in style to that purple Onewa from the prior thread)?

Maybe this is unfair to ask, but do you have a general ETA on this? Like April-ish, May-ish? I don’t intend to sound pushy, just genuinely curious (and personally I’d be perfectly fine with it if it’d be later).

In this regard, I feel like the canon Felnas and Shelek shouldn’t be allowed as well? Not because of their powers, but because the set versions are shapeshifted (although, I guess this is something that could be corrected in the final group shot?)

(Emphasis mine). As apparently the only person aside for Dorek who doesn’t want 3D pieces in these contests, I think this is something that should be done. Otherwise, it feels like it’s in the ballpark of sideline canonization that the Staff of Artakha was for his contest. Because then you’d just have a reverse Norik- a mask with a canon shape, but not a canon power. Sure, nothing says it can’t be a new shape, but seeing as how these contests aren’t about anything other than pure representations of characters, we could just wholesale avoid this issue altogether by just sticking to canon shapes.

Would a painted mask that was otherwise released in sets count as a “modification” in this regard? For example, a gold-painted set Arthron?

Also, to reiterate, each Hagah should have its own topic, correct? We can’t just do a master topic that has all of our entries in it?

Outside of these points, everything again sounds generally good to me! Looking forward to the start of this!

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Most of the rules sound good to me. I share some concerns that others have already expressed, so I’ll just ask for clarification on this one:

I’m a bit confused by the wording here - being within a head of an existing Metru or Hagah set could mean an entry could be a head shorter than Whenua or a head taller than Iruini. The second sentence then goes on to say these heights aren’t allowed. Assuming the second sentence is correct, the first sentence seems either incomplete or untrue. I’d also like to point out that Iruini is taller than Nokama/Nuju because his shins are longer.

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Besides the unclarity pointed out by Toaskello, these sound good to me!

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I still believe that known shapes for Kanohi shouldn’t be allowed. Let’s make Hagah unique looking! Why do we need more Toa with 2001 masks? Iruini should be our standard, not Norik.

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Rip Mask of Emulation for Pouks. I know that Greg Farshtey said it, but I really hope there’s some leeway for including it in the future since Iruini will be the odd man out.

Not sure about the sizing rule though. If the size difference isn’t too dramatic, I wouldn’t rule it out (since the Hagah are from different lands).

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I can maybe understand preferring brand new masks, but banning old masks seems very extreme and unnecessary to me.

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Changed.

There is no reasonable basis for this, and we’re not going to consider that. They both stand as our standard. We’re not entertaining otherwise. End of this discussion.

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To quote their backstory, as they are introduced in the books in BIONICLE Adventures 9: Web of Shadows, Appendix: Origin of the Rahaga, pp. 132-133:

Actually, afterthought on the height thing–Do masks count into the height, or are we counting up to the head? Because say, a mask with horns will be significantly taller (for good reason).

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Given the wording of his proposal and your response, are custom shapes disallowed?

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Good question. We discussed it internally, and we think inverted torsos like that would be perfectly acceptable. The intention behind the wording
was more to avoid people trying to incorporate the two individual parts in ways that don’t connect them how LEGO intended. So long as the lower torso is connected to the upper torso in the same way LEGO did, we don’t care how you orient it.

Nothing. For me, I make no meaningful distinction between shoulders, bicep, upper-arm, etc. That area of coverage is what’s important, not necessarily the attachment point.

They are considered metallic, so they would be allowed.

We intend to start in April, if not sooner. Could start as early as the end of this month, depending on how this feedback process goes.

We make no restrictions on spear-tip usage. Plenty of things in BIONICLE have gone by names other than what they actually are. Norik’s spear tip, for instance, is an aqua-axe. As such, I say go open season with that.

As finished as you want your entry to be.

Enter a sketch, enter a full-fledged color pieces, concept art, etc. Just know you’ll be at the mercy of the voters and their sensibilities. We’ll also be allowing a longer entry period for the group art contest than we otherwise would as a result of more characters being drawn.

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What? No, that’s- That’s not what he was proposing. He wanted to disallow known shapes for masks, like ones released in sets, and only allow custom shapes. And that’s ridiculous. We’re not mandating that. Custom and preexisting are allowed.

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He was discussing only preexisting shapes, and considering how emphatic you were in your response, I wanted to clarify regarding custom shapes.