Toa Hagah Canon Contest Ruleset Feedback

Rip Mask of Emulation for Pouks. I know that Greg Farshtey said it, but I really hope there’s some leeway for including it in the future since Iruini will be the odd man out.

Not sure about the sizing rule though. If the size difference isn’t too dramatic, I wouldn’t rule it out (since the Hagah are from different lands).

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I can maybe understand preferring brand new masks, but banning old masks seems very extreme and unnecessary to me.

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Changed.

There is no reasonable basis for this, and we’re not going to consider that. They both stand as our standard. We’re not entertaining otherwise. End of this discussion.

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To quote their backstory, as they are introduced in the books in BIONICLE Adventures 9: Web of Shadows, Appendix: Origin of the Rahaga, pp. 132-133:

Actually, afterthought on the height thing–Do masks count into the height, or are we counting up to the head? Because say, a mask with horns will be significantly taller (for good reason).

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Given the wording of his proposal and your response, are custom shapes disallowed?

Good question. We discussed it internally, and we think inverted torsos like that would be perfectly acceptable. The intention behind the wording
was more to avoid people trying to incorporate the two individual parts in ways that don’t connect them how LEGO intended. So long as the lower torso is connected to the upper torso in the same way LEGO did, we don’t care how you orient it.

Nothing. For me, I make no meaningful distinction between shoulders, bicep, upper-arm, etc. That area of coverage is what’s important, not necessarily the attachment point.

They are considered metallic, so they would be allowed.

We intend to start in April, if not sooner. Could start as early as the end of this month, depending on how this feedback process goes.

We make no restrictions on spear-tip usage. Plenty of things in BIONICLE have gone by names other than what they actually are. Norik’s spear tip, for instance, is an aqua-axe. As such, I say go open season with that.

As finished as you want your entry to be.

Enter a sketch, enter a full-fledged color pieces, concept art, etc. Just know you’ll be at the mercy of the voters and their sensibilities. We’ll also be allowing a longer entry period for the group art contest than we otherwise would as a result of more characters being drawn.

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What? No, that’s- That’s not what he was proposing. He wanted to disallow known shapes for masks, like ones released in sets, and only allow custom shapes. And that’s ridiculous. We’re not mandating that. Custom and preexisting are allowed.

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He was discussing only preexisting shapes, and considering how emphatic you were in your response, I wanted to clarify regarding custom shapes.

Do not cite the deep lore to me

There are so many possible mask designs in the MU and yet we stick to the ones that accociate with the sets. It is possible that all four will have unique masks, but after previous contests I don’t want to risk even small details.

I’m disappointed the Mask of Emulation was unsurprisingly excluded from Pouks like my pal @doni , but I understand why that rule was implemented. Overall, these rules are pretty reasonable.

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Ah heck, then I guess I need to stop being a boomer and figure out how to download custom pieces into Stud.io soon :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I mean, I guess, but it just complicates things.

lol, same. Still gotta figure out how to get the biopack working, too!

Also side not:
Not really related to the Hagah rules, but I wonder what this contest’s title will be…

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I find it almost insulting that the results of the poll (“exactly as normal” winning by a landslide) were practically ignored, and the way this explanation reads is very opinionated with “we believe,” “our utmost belief,” and “just seems like,” so I just don’t find it convincing enough to side against the majority of the community on this one.

While I am disappointed, I did expect it, and I think I should address some points made in the first topic that I didn’t initially.

Artistic license is a great way to excuse “We don’t have the molds anymore and this Rahkshi is in the style of the rest of the Stars.” We are not hindered by that limitation and shouldn’t be forced to abide by it because you don’t want to use specific pieces.

Additionally, the Rahkshi can be excused otherwise - they were modified to sport thicker, light-resistant armor.
[/quote]

At first, I took the citation on BS01 for granted without actually looking at Journey’s End to see for myself. When I did look, however, I only found this single line from chapter 9:

Meanwhile, Takanuva is fighting the Rahkshi of Heat Vision, who are now more resistant to his light powers.

It’s left ambiguous, so it could refer to a difference in armor, but it doesn’t automatically mean that. Maybe it was a product of Makuta Viruses, we simply don’t know for sure. Plus Greg’s consistency that this is purely a difference in set design with no significance in story.[1][2] For other Stars, yes, there actually is an in-universe change in armor, like Gresh[3][4][5] and Tahu,[5] but the Skrall is just regular, only green instead of red,[6][7] and there is no definitive explanation for Takanuva or Nektann that I could find. Even outside of the Stars there are examples, namely Gold Good Guy, who was canonized as Turaga Lhikan,[8][9] despite having the same Great Hau instead of a Noble. Or how Ultimate Dume is (probably? there’s conflicting answers[10][11]) the same exact form as 2003 Makuta, only with wings.

Yes, the reason for these differences out-of-universe is that they were simply working with the pieces they had, but I was specifically talking about how they impact canon in-universe, showing that they don’t have any reason in story for their differences but are still equally canon, so a custom built Hagah wouldn’t canonically go against the Metru build (especially when the differences with my build are much less egregious than the differences that already exist in canon). This isn’t even taking into consideration the differences between the sets and other media, like the movies, which Greg also considers to be equally canon, just a different interpretation.

You simply cannot argue from canon that custom builds should be banned. One could even make the argument from the wording of the question asked to Greg, specifically the phrase “Metru-styled,” that it doesn’t automatically imply an exact Metru build, which would be supported by the fact that the Hagah come from different teams across the MU. I’m not saying I support this view, but that it’s one way to read it. Whichever way you do, there still isn’t justification to ban custom builds on the basis of canon, and it would be arrogant to ignore everything above and suggest otherwise. However, if you ban custom builds simply to ensure cohesion with Norik and Iruini, while that is entirely reasonable, it would be purely opinionated to suggest the actual Metru torso piece must be used in order to achieve that cohesion, and you would then be imposing that opinion onto official canon, which is far more arrogant.

So why not let custom builds enter and let the community decide to vote for them or not if they so desire?

I didn’t expect a free for all contest to actually win. Nice. I’m way more in favor of this format.

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https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2008-2010/page300#post11992-line2,6

  1. In JE, it is noted that the rahkshi are “upgraded” by Teridax, in what ways are they upgraded?
  1. Better armor
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Should probably go and update the BS01 page with that then, but still, there are many other examples, so my point still stands.

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Yes–Takanuva is a very prime one.
I agree that the sets have a layer of “artistic license” themselves.

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But what if we like the entry that uses an existing mask best? There’s nothing wrong with existing masks.

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this one feels unnecessary

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Hey, glad to see this initial ruleset! I like pretty much everything on here, except one point;

Emphasis mine. I have no issue with the prefab torso being required, however I feel as though certain designs, especially Purple Onewa builds could be enhanced with wider shoulders. Constraining us to using just that specific pelvis piece would make crafting a more proportional version of that design considerably more difficult.

Apart from that little detail, I’m liking this ruleset for the MoC entrants! It allows for reasonably diverse builds while not allowing extreme cases. Looking forward to the contest!

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