Purchasing parts for one build is…hopefully…less than purchasing a computer lol I understand your argument though. I recognize I’m talking about what is most likely a small demographic and We can’t bend over backwards for those who don’t have access to computers or funding for parts. However, I still think that not mandating Mocs to be submitted in a set of four is a better route to go.
Yeah no, I’m not in favor of mandating all 4, either, for reasons I’ve already gone into. I just don’t think money is really what it boils down to, so much as time.
No, but you still have two with gunmetal parts, two with gold and two with silver (same for the Piraka). It’s just some of them don’t have it in the same places.
Sure, it’s leading, but that doesn’t mean much. The way I see it, people who voted for options 2 or 3 most likely did so because they want to make extra sure we get consistent designs, which simultaneous voting can do very little about. By that token, it’s almost 50:50 on people who are indifferent about consistency (or don’t think the other two options can do any better) and people who care about consistency.
Excuse me, the options are not consistency or no consistency. They are all at once or not all at once or all four per entry. Nowhere does it say, imply, or hint towards consistency being the deciding factor here, and the notion that the people who would prefer the contest be done normally simply don’t care is insulting.
Maybe. But the fact that Meso put it to people that option 2 and 3 were created in the interest of consistency, I suspect most people will be voting on that basis.
Indifference doesn’t mean uncaring. It means consistency isn’t their priority.
This… isn’t a terrible idea.
No Hagah gets “first dibs”, and the final-round artists get some amount of creative control. Most importantly, though, we get a really good balance of picking and choosing the ones that work best as a team, but only from the entries that already proved themselves to be the individual favourites.
The only downside I can see is that we might get scenarios where someone likes the Bomonga from one entry, but not the Kualus. But even then, it won’t be as severe as doing all four together from the start, since the entries in the selection pool of each Hagah have already made it to the finals of their own merit, so people are more likely to be happy with all of them.
Of course, there will be some people who don’t like any of the individual finalists, but they’re going to be disappointed whether we use this approach or not.
I think this discussion has shown that this is not true.
In what way? You can’t seriously propose that 8 random people trying in futility to explain why they are, in fact, correct, represent the community at large.
Exactly.
So why are you claiming that “everyone” will vote with consistency as the prime objective?
Uh, you actually have two with silver, one with gunmetal, two with both gunmetal and silver for no good reason, and only one with gold.
The Toa Inika also aren’t predominantly metallic. With the exception of Hewkii, of course. Some of them only have three metallic parts.
And the Inika color schemes should not be used as a standard of what we should do – they’re atrocious! Half of them have a big blob of mismatched color on their torso. Hewkii and Nuparu decided to mix gunmetal and silver for no fathomable reason. Hewkii decided to lose the bright color sheme of past stone sets in lieu of gray – even later stone sets went yellow/orange.
… I’m sorry, are you directly contradicting what you said 5 minutes ago?
Because it’s the most objectively reasonable criteria. It takes basic logic to arrive to the conclusion that the Hagah should have relative consistency.
Nope.
You claimed that no one would vote for a MOC if it didn’t follow preset “consistency”. I pointed out that such a sweeping statement isn’t true, or else we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Then you said that this topic can’t be used to draw conclusions about the community as a whole, which I agree with. Yet you came to the conclusion that “no one” in the community as a whole would vote for an entry that doesn’t follow consistency.
And exactly what that means varies from person-to-person.
I guess Ghid lacks basic logic, then. Is that what you’re saying?
I’m not trying to insult Ghid, of course. But you kinda are
No. It takes basic logic to see that people care about different things. Many people will vote for whatever entry they like and won’t give a Karzahni about consistency. Their votes are just as valid as anyone else’s.
There’s another.
Let’s say there are six Pouks. All the artists use pouks 1 through 5, but Pouks 6 is completely ignored, just because the artists making the collabs don’t personally like it.
Or how about Pouks 1, who was leading in all the polls, now loses because he ended up in comparatively awful art whereas Pouks 3 wins with a less-than-stellar design because he was portrayed by one of the last contest winners. This is a problem where the popular vote loses due to poor or a lack of representation.
Not much of a fan. There’s now way to guarantee they’ll all be used without imposing a mandate.
I want a fair contest for those entering. That beats out consistency of anything other than what’s already been written in the rules. And the current rules require visual consistency; why would I realistically expect anything more?
He also said this.
Currently half the community is voting for the written option to continue the contest normally. The other half is between two options, both according to you for the sake of consistency, despite Meso only saying cohesion, and I can guarantee not 100% of the second half is voting for consistency as the primary motivation. Or can we assume that about the other polls these contests have produced?
You’re succeeding. You’re also claiming I don’t care at all about the relative consistency of the Hagah, when what I don’t care about is cloning Norik and Iruini to get your results. All the Hagah must have armour in specific locations on their body; all the Hagah must have a matching mask, spear, and shield - that is one possible definition of cohesion, is it not? It counts as consistency, does it not?
Then if so Winger is correct. Everyone who voted cares about that kind of cohesion. But no, not everyone cares about making the Hagah the exact same.
“everyone” was an exaggeration to illustrate my point. If it makes you happy, fine, “Most people”. I fail to see how “us having this discussion” negates that. Because there are people that disagree with my statement in this topic? That’s how I interpreted it, prompting this response:
I guess, judging by your second paragraph, that you really misunderstand my reasoning. I didn’t come to my conclusion based on this topic - I’ve barely read any of this topic. I just used logic.
-These are canon contests
-we are making visual forms a team
-in the past, canon teams of sets have been aesthetically internally consistent
-the winners of this contest should therefore be aesthetically internally consistent
naturally
You’re twisting mine and his words.
“different things” in this contest will be minutiae - you can preach all you want about the versatility of the current system, that’s all great. But the majority of entries aren’t going to be utilizing that versatility, so the point is moot… No one is going to vote for buff Gaaki after the other three are Norik clones.
Thanks, bruh. While I’m here, I’ll address Racie’s criticism of it:
This is only true to an extent. There were plenty of really great pieces of artwork for the prior contest so I don’t expect one person to get a monopoly on votes. I think preference for the phase 1 designs will still have a sway on voting, though I agree people’s artistic preferences will probably have more of a sway. People say Khing’s Mask of Creation fit the Artakha MOC better, but Perp3tual’s design won out because the art was preferred.
Still, the fact that the phase 2 art contest exists and is what is actually canonically binding is reason enough for me that phase 1 isn’t nearly as important. The artist wouldn’t really be picking the winners because they can’t guarantee they’ll win. Voters will essentially pick who picked the best lineup, but also who did that best lineup justice.
Yeah, I have no idea what I was thinking there. I think way back when when I was trying to reconcile the fact that we might not get consistent colouring, I looked at the Piraka’s beautifully consistent designs and mixed them up with the Inika.
Y’all have a point there. But to further clarify, I was mostly trying to say that an uneven metallic color distribution across the team wouldn’t be as egregious as some people seem to claim. 2 silver / 4 unique or 3 silver / 2 Gold / 1 Gunmetal wouldn’t be ideal, but I don’t see it ruining the team aesthetic. Though this could all just be down to personal tastes.
If that many people don’t like it, then how did it get to the finals in the first place?
I do agree with this, but the current rules already ensure it.
I just don’t see how the current setup would allow for an entry to be inconsistent enough that no one would vote for it, regardless of staggered voting or whatever new method ends up getting used.
The only way an entry could be “inconsistent” is if you have a far more specific vision of consistency, which is not something that can be generalized about the community as a whole.
Let’s say a brown and silver Pouks wins, followed by a white and silver Kualus, followed by a black and gold Bomonga.
No one’s going to vote for gunmetal Gaaki.
You ever just post something and then instantly regret it?
Okay, so I probably shouldn’t have said that. Once again, should probably apologize to Ghid. (man, I’m on a roll today)
But in the interest of clarifying what I meant…
You have said you would be voting for entries that do things differently from Norik and Iruini. And the gist of what I get from your posts is that you don’t mind as much if things like armor color or type are unbalanced, so long as everything’s fair. In fact, you argue for the option that basically guarantees that’s the case.
Winger said they should have relative consistency (as in, relative to each other), yet this is impossible with simultaneous voting. You are simply the biggest proponent of that in this topic.
I’ve no issue with his argument, but him saying that it takes basic logic to see that consistency is the main reason people will vote, when people like you (and others) have shown that some people don’t care quite as much about consistency, didn’t feel right to me.
Of course, that didn’t give me the right to assume your intentions just to use you as a counterpoint, so I again should not have said that.
I think that this is the crux of our difference of opinion here, because I simply don’t think that this will be the case. If it’s a well-designed moc, I think that plenty of people will vote for it. It could even win; or it might not. I definitely don’t think that it’s as certain as you say.
In fact, there’s at least some people who will likely vote against gold gaaki, because that will look like a Toa of Psionics.