I agree here, the Toa realizing they were betrayed by Dume and then getting brutally murdered? Definitely should have gotten more detail.
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I think there is more to it than ‘just being ugly’, Matau’s Toa form meant a lot to him but even apart from that, it was also about poor leadership for which Matau was constantly blaming Vakama in the movie. Sure that could have led to Vakama betraying the others but I think it could just as well have led to Matau heading off on his own, be captured by Roodaka and have her offer him a place in the lead (and seduce him with hopes of returning to his former state).
This too!
True that. And I do find it credible that a lot of them died but still, considering 1) their experience, 2) the fact that someone on the team wore a Kanohi Rode (which was a poor choice in hindsight) and 3) the fact that the missions didn’t all take place at the same time (because Eliminator can only be at one place at a time) I feel like there should have been more left. More Mangai, less Metru. Perhaps even no Metru and just make the Mangai Turaga but I am getting ahead of myself here.
Absolutely!
I kind of agree with Greg here.
ehh depends on which era of bionicle you’re talking about.
2001-2003? yeah, pretty logical.
2006? Not quite as logical…
2016? NO.
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In my opinion, if Matau was going to become the traitor in 05, then it should have been because he was trying to avoid his destiny of sacrificing his Toa powers to awaken the Matoran. Matau loved being a hero, in great part because of the glory of it. Roodaka could offer him the option to stay a Toa and still “save” the Matoran (this would either mean ruling them by force like the Visorak, or the whole thing could just be a lie).
No matter who becomes the traitor, I still would have liked to see Matau have an arc in 05 where he realizes what saving the Matoran means for his powers, and he has to come to terms with it.
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This is something that, while I don’t personally wish it would have been this way, I would have liked to see play out in some fashion, at any place in the story.
I 100% agree with @TheJerminator’s assessment of the Vakama/Matau debate. I’ve said this before on other threads, but I’ve also never been in the “traitor Matau” camp for the exact reasons others have stated. It just makes zero sense for him and his motivations aren’t related to that subplot at all.
I also agree with @Ghid that Vakama’s betrayal was only really heavily featured in the movie, which didn’t have the time or focus to set it up in a satisfying way. That being said, I will still take that version of events with Vakama over Matau because it at least makes sense.
But you bring up a good point with the avoidance of destiny idea. Someone could correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we ever saw a Toa be reluctant to complete their destiny for selfish fear of losing their Toa power. Sure, we’ve seen Toa choose to remain as Toa, but in those cases it’s usually because they felt they could still do more good as a Toa than as a Turaga. And we’ve never really seen a Turaga regret losing giving up their power.
But if there’s any Toa that would fit that conflict the best, I think it would be Matau. I don’t necessarily agree that it would drive him to betray his team (it could work, but I don’t find it as interesting as Vakama’s stuggle), but it could have worked as another internal conflict between the Web of Shadows arc and the Toa Metru returning on Mata Nui.
Yea, I basically agree with this.
I mean, he has a similar arc already in WoS where he realizes that the Matoran mean more than himself, but directly relating that to his power and stature and fame would have been a lot more interesting.
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I agree, 100%! I also prefer Vakama being the traitor. There are other arcs I wish that the Toa went through, too.
Whenua had that whole confrontation with Mavrah, and then he and the Rahi, conscious Bomonga spent time in the archives. The books describe him as feeling trapped due to his Hordika side. I would have liked to see Whenua and Bomonga talk about how the Rahi are being treated and Whenua resolving to not trap them in stasis if they come back (I like to think that morally ambiguous stuff like this was introduced to the Matoran society by TerryDume, but that’s a discussion for another day).
Onewa is an interesting case because he used to be Vakama’s “rival” in the early books. The two of them share the most time together where they bicker a lot. Eventually Onewa begins to be friendly to the others (he and Whenua’s dynamic in Voyage of Fear, his protectiveness of Nokama in Maze of Shadows, etc.) The most important moment of development for him, in my opinion, was when that leech attacks him and gives him a vision of the Visorak. Afterwards he expresses genuine sympathy for Vakama. When I read that I genuinely thought that that was going to be the moment that Onewa gets off of Vakama’s case to make way for Vakama and Matau’s arc. But later (in the books, at least) Onewa is still mad and distrusting of Vakama, and Vakama expresses frustration towards both Onewa and Matau. IMO, this makes Matau’s climactic battle with Vakama not feel as potent as it could. I’m sure there are ways this could be fixed, but the ideas for that aren’t coming to me right now.
As for Nokama and Nuju, I’m not quite sure. They were the most comfortable in their Hordika forms, so there’s that to work with.
Overall, I think 05 has some of the best potential for character growth. So to circle back to the topic of this discussion, I like 05 despite it’s flaws.
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i think 2001-2003 are the worst
of all the bionicle years.
i think roodaka’s design is sus.
i like the hau mistika, and i feel tahu mistika is
the best representation of tahu we’ve ever had.
and i think love is not canon whatsoever.
Having just read Time Trap for the first time, I am now even more sure that Vakama is the best candidate for the traitor in 05. The reason? This wonderful paragraph:
“Makuta looked into Vakama’s eyes. They were the eyes of a being who had been driven beyond madness, only to return. They had looked upon a darkness as deep as any Makuta had known, and yet somehow turned back to the light. They were not the eyes of a being who was bluffing.”
(I see now why people love Time Trap so much)
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That is my favorite Bionicle book of 2005, right there.
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Everyone’s going to stone me for this one.
Lariska cannot canonically have digitigrade legs. She is described as being able to do backflips which can only be possible if she has plantigrade legs.
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wait really
we can just chalk it up to f a n t a s y
it’s so much easier
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Yeah, it says so right in Time Trap. If you’re a humanoid trying to do a backflip with digitgrade legs, you may want to reconsider…
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How many mocs have those legs?
well i have seen to many lariskas with anime legs-sorry
animal legs so now all lariskas will have normal legs
aahahahhaha
I’m not brave enough to go into that…
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What does a digitigrade leg look like again
i counted 8 animal leg lariskas
there may be more
But in all seriousness, if we’re going to be physically and anatomically strict, there’s a lot that’s a huge no-go in Bionicle. I don’t see any reason that we need to enforce it in this one thing. The Axalara can’t move, the GSR can’t stand, etc, and that’s just in the small realm of Bionicle, let alone wider fantasy and sci-fi. Dragons can’t fly and TIE Fighters can’t be iconic.
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hoho good thing I didn’t put them on mine then
I have planned for every possible occurrence
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