What if the Great Disks were forged individually?

An idea that was always creeping in the back of my mind recently resurfaced.
The Great Disks. We know that the six Metrutoran wanted them for their own selfish reasons, but Nuhrii is an interesting case.

It is said that he wanted to outdo Vakama by forging the Ta-Metru Great Disk into G1 equivalent of the mask of ultimate power. Of course, he never had a chance to do so. But what if he did? What kind of mask would this result in?

Luckily, we know the powers for all of the Great Disks, so we can ask this question for all of them. Let’s start with…

Ta-Metru: code 159, power: enlarge
Result: If Nuhrii proceeded with his original plan, he would have made a Legendary Mask of Growth.
Predicted powers: allows the user to grow to the size of the Matoran Universe
(GSR), destruction would stop all growth inside MU.
Note: One could obviously rival Mata Nui with such mask.

Ga-Metru: code 279, power: regeneration
Result: Legendary Kiril
Predicted powers: Regenerative power most likely rivaling, or surpassing that of the Staff of Artakha (could reach even Karda Nui), destruction would result MU inhabitants to be unable to repair anything. Universe would eventually break down from accumulated damage.
Note: If this mask was created instead of Vahi, Great Cataclysm could have been reversed immidiately after Makuta’s defeat. Great rescue wouldn’t needed happen, Visorak army would never had taken over Metru Nui, Makuta would have remained trapped, GSR proceeds to repair SM.

Po-Metru: code 339, power: weaken
Result: Legendary Jutlin
Predicted powers: Reverse of Legendary Kiril, its use decomposes entire MU in relatively short time, if destroyed all erosion and material degradation would cease.
Note: OoMN might want to use it to “end all” during Teridax’s reign. Teridax might want to smash it to immortalize his new body. Whoever owns it has a superweapon in their hands (on their face?)

Ko-Metru: code 429, power: freeze
Result: Legendary Mask of Ice
Predicted powers: Provides elemental ice powers surpassing element lord of ice, destruction screws up laws of thermodynamics, which causes MU to build up heat, until it is cooked from inside out.
Note: Brrrrr :cold_face:

Le-Metru: code 589, power: teleportation
Result: Legendary Kualsi
Predicted powers: Ability to transport oneself or others anywhere within the MU without any limitation, or over interplanetary distances (if Artakha’s attempt is any indication), destruction would disable all teleportation powers/devices, causing them to either not function at all, or have extremely random results.
Note: Destruction surprisingly wouldn’t be that devastating. The maximum distance is hard to gauge, but it shouuld be at least greater than Artakhas.

Onu-Metru: code 619, power: reconstitute at random
Result: Legendary Mask of Mutation (? - my guess)
Predicted powers: Gives user free control over any physical form and its properties. Can also reverse any mutation. Destruction negates all shapeshifting, mutation, or other transformative proceses inside MU, this might impair some essential GSR functions where such process is needed (such as the constant transformation of the power source providing energy for the universe).
Note: Possibly the most powerful mask.

Conclusion: Vakama, why didn’t you just make Legendary Kiril instead of Vahi :sob: !?

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Those are really cool theories. But I think you made them too powerful - with half of them you can simply destroy the MU. Also, it is should be remembered that it is really hard to master such a Kanohi. Such a nice randomness that we know almost all the Masks that can be made from those Disks. Idea is nice. Now I wonder what if we make any other normal Kanohi Legendary…
P. s. Mask of Ice is weird :slight_smile:

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Thank you!
I think they should be insanely powerful, since other legendary Kanohi are, and have global effects when destroyed.
You are right about them being hard to control, I assumed full mastery when writing those predicted powers. Maybe that is why they appear too powerful.
Regular use wouldn’t neccessarily reach such levels.

Well, there are many known combinations one can make from Great Disks. e. g. Legendary Hau)

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Tell that to the people who worked on G2…

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I don’t know if forging the Great Disks individually would create Legendary Kanohi. The Time Power in the Great Disks was Legendary, but I don’t know if their individual powers were at a Legendary level.

Additionally, I think that the Time Power was unique to the Great Disks. Remember: If the Kanohi Vahi was destroyed, Time would cease to exist in the Matoran Universe. So… how was Time existing before the Vahi was created? The only solution I can think of is that the Time Power was in the Great Disks. If the Disks were destroyed, Time would cease to exist.

So, while the Great Disks contained Legendary levels of Time Power, they were merely vessels for the power; it did not increase any of the Disks’s natural attributes. If they were to be individually forged, they would have normal Kanohi powers, though they would still contain the Time Power that the rest of the universe depends on.

In a sense, they would still be Legendary Masks of Time, but a user would not be able to access the Time Power unless they were merged, and they could still use the Kanohi with their normal powers.

@Lesnichiy

The Legendary status of Kanohi is not necessarily based on power level, but instead their importance to the Matoran Universe. Legendary Kanohi contain a certain element of existence in the Matoran Universe, and if they were destroyed, that element would cease to exist. This is related to my statement above, in which I claimed these indivdiually-forged Great Disk Kanohi would still be Legendary Masks of Time; They would be Legendary Masks of Time, not because they can control Time, but because Time is linked to their existence.

A Legendary Mask of Fire, for example, probably would not be any harder to control than a regular Mask of Fire. What makes it Legendary is the fact that, if it were to be destroyed, Fire would cease to exist in the Matoran Universe.

The existing Legendary Masks are difficult to control not because they are Legendary, but because their powers are inherently difficult to control.

Though this makes me wonder: Are other Legendary Masks even possible? Maybe only ‘fundamental forces’ can be tied into a Mask, or other object. That is why Legendary Masks are always hard to control: not because they are Legendary, but because they contain such a powerful force.

Legendary does not necessarily mean ‘a hard to control, fundamental, force’, but a Kanohi cannot be one without being the other.

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I knew somebody would bring this up, so better sooner then later:

The legendary status of a mask is indeed based on its power level. The individual Great Disks have legendary level energy as is marked by the power level 9. That is their whole thing - they are much more powerful than any other Kanoka in existence.

The disks are not the vessels for the power of time until they are fused into Disk of Time. Likewise, time existed before creation of Vahi or Disk of time and its existence was only bound to these objects of power after they were brought into being.

The power of time results from combination of these six powers, but only level 9 (legendary) Kanoka can contain it. That is why we see Vakama trying to create “Great Vahi”, but failing - the power always bursts out.

So yes, these disks would indeed result in individual Legendary Kanohi, and whatever concept was represented by their power would be linked to the MU at the point of creation.

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I initially thought that this was a really dumb idea, but then I thought about it a bit more, and it actually makes a lot of sense, and it explains how Time existed before the Vahi. The Great Beings knew how to contruct something that could contain Time, and then suck Time into it, just like with Creation. They just left the Time building blocks unfinished, and Vakama put them together.

To elaborate on this idea: the combination of those powers can somehow absorb the power of Time, but it must then be stored in a vessel. In Vakama’s previous attempts, he was able to absorb the power, but then the vessel was too weak, and it broke. Then, eventually, the extreme power of the Great Disks made for a vessel strong enough to contain the power of Time after it was absorbed.

But I still disagree with this part. Note that I am about to contradict a lot of stuff from my previous comment.

The Great Disks were more powerful, and able withstand the power of Time, but I don’t think that means that their individual powers were Legendary. Greater than any other Kanoka of their power type, but not Legendary. The reason Time is a Legendary Kanohi is because it contains, and is uniquely bound to, an extremely powerful force that cannot be contained in a weaker vessel. During its creation, the Disk of Time absorbed the entirety of Time Power.

But there are other, weaker Kanoka of Regeneration, or Freeze. As such, these powers cannot be Legendary, because they were artificially created by the Great Beings, unlike Time, which is a fundamental force of the universe.

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The whole absorbing the power of Time is an interesting interpretation of what happens when a Legendary Kanohi is created in general, but that is perhaps for another discussion.
The notion of Legendary mask/disk being linked to the universal concept at the time of its creation is not my idea, but a canon explanation.

Also the Great Beings did not create the Great Disks, that was Artakha’s doing. He only did so as an experiment of his after technology for Kanoka was developed in Metru Nui, which was circa 7000 years before great cataclysm, so very late into the MU timeline.

You seem to confuse what makes a disk and subsequent mask legendary - it is the power level (9), not the power itself.
Legendary Kanohi are legendary because they are of a much higher energies than any other mask, that is why their power is considered legendary - it is boosted to legendary levels and thus tied to the mask.

Weaker disks of Regeneration, Enlarge etc. exist, yes, but if boosted to level 9 they also become legendary powers.

Time, Life and Creation were also created by the GBs and are fundamental to the Matoran Universe - a self-contained cosmos. Every concept is physical law was created by GBs and is contained within MU.
This of course does not relate to the outside universe.

The Great Disks being legendary level because of their power level 9 and the potential to be forged into legendary Kanohi is once again not my idea, but a long established canon.
The only part that is speculative are the resulting powers and effects on the story.


Let me add a bit of speculation regarding the Great disks and the power of Time.
Every power that can be made using Kanoka technology is either made from single or multiple Kanoka. The powers that we do get from multiple disks, are the result of specific combinations. So far we have only seen Kanohi made from either two or three disk combinations.
When Vakama was commissioned by false Dume to make a Mask of Time, he had to experiment with different disk combinatins in order to make this new never before seen power. He eventually figured it out and settled on the combination of six disks: enlarge, regen., weaken, freeze, teleportation, rec. at random.
It is possible that disk combinations made from too many disks are unstable and that is why the power of Time can only be contained in level 9 disks, which naturally fuse together.
Notice how the Vahi is the only Legendary Kanohi not made by the GBs. It is also the only one made out of Kanoka. If the GB needed Mask of Time, they probably would have made it at the beginning of the MU, just like other legendary Kanohi. But they didn’t.

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I’d just like to go on record as saying that this has been a fun nerddom debate to watch.:+1:

If this was true, one would be able to make a non-Legendary Vahi. But it has been confirmed that a non-Legendary Mask of Time cannot be created. A Vahi literally cannot be created from Level 8 Kanoka, because the power of Time itself is too strong.

Contrary to this, it is well-established that non-Legendary Kirils exist, or that Level 8 Freeze Disks exist.

This shows that the power of Time is more powerful than any given Kanoka power.

Legendary-level Kanoka are required to craft a Vahi, but that is not the cause of its Legendary status; it is a symptom. The power of Time is Legendary-level, so it requires Legendary-level Protodermis to contain it.

On the other hand, Regeneration, as a power, is low-level enough that it can be contained in a Level 2 Kanoka. The power level of a Kanoka does not indicate the power of its given ability, but the power of the Kanoka to manifest that ability. A Level 2 Regeneration Kanoka would have a fairly weak effect, while a Level 9 one would have a very strong effect. But that does not mean that Regeneration is a Legendary power.

Your point about Time (capitalized) being an artificial concept is a very good one. I think that plays well into the idea of the Vahi ‘absorbing’ it upon creation.

Of course, it is still a very powerful power that can only be contained by Legendary-level Protodermis.

Also a good point about Artakha making the Disks. Maybe he knew what combination was necessary to create a reaction that would absorb Time?

EDIT: Wait a second here. I think this goes even deeper. I just came up with a theory that goes beyond what we have been discussing:

I find it interesting that he sent the Disks to Metru Nui around the same time Kojol stole the Avohkii. I think Artakha was trying to create a mask that could control Time, because that’s how he rolls, but then he had to send the Disks to Metru Nui so that Kojol couldn’t get his hands on them.

Recall: In the Toa Empire, Artakha never sent the Disks to Metru Nui, and instead completed the Vahi himself. It was never explained why. But I just figured it out:

The Toa Empire began around 3500 years ago, 1000 years before Kojol would have raided Artakha. Tuyet’s dictatorship begins hunting the Makuta, and their plans change. Therefore , Kojol never raids Artakha, and Artakha never has to send the Disks to Metru Nui in a desperation play. Then, he has the peace and quiet to finish it himself.

EDIT PART 2: This theory doesn’t quite work. I had my numbers wrong. Artakha teleported the Disks around 1000 years before Kojol raided Artakha.

But this still explains why Artakha kept the Disks for himself in the Toa Empire. He kept them because, around the time he would have teleported the Disks, Tuyet had just come into power. He doesn’t want to risk such power being granted to her, so he keeps the Disks. Of course, he later handed the Vahi over anyways, but I believe he was being threatened at that point.

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