Why is Solek a hated set?

[TeslaEffect]

Its like saying why water is wet, its literally in its nature to be hated.

[Votuko]

@Joe

It is objective fact that a Lego set made almost entirely of specialized molds is not as good

But there is no such thing as “objective goodness” - as a concept, “good” is entirely subjective and depends on what criteria you choose to judge by.

@Joe

Those are all objective from a certain point of view

Objectivity doesn’t depend on viewpoint, by definition…

Personally, I like Solek. That’s because I like the combination with Kopaka. I don’t mind that the pieces are harder to reuse because I avoid disassembling any G1 set since the sockets can break. And since I’m more interested in story than building rainbow MOCs, I don’t care that white continues to represent Ice.

But I also agree that Solek scores the lowest if judged by the criteria listed above, so by those criteria is “worst”. (No reason for full hatred though, imo.)

I think the reason these arguments get so heated is that people don’t realise they are automatically assuming their own criteria for what is “good”. Then when people disagree, both sides think it is obvious that the other is wrong.

[Payinku]

… did, did you just say objectively good or bad doesn’t exist?
I have no words.

You can like something that is objectively bad,
It’s called a guilty pleasure, solek is a guilty pleasure for you,
That doesn’t mean he’s not objectively bad.

[Votuko]

@Payinku

… did, did you just say objectively good or bad doesn’t exist?
I have no words.

Yes, I did. Since Solek being “good” or “bad” depends on what features the reviewer personally wants in a set, then that can’t be objective. Is this controversial?

@Payinku

It’s called a guilty pleasure, solek is a guilty pleasure for you

No, a guilty pleasure is something you enjoy but feel you shouldn’t (eg. eating an unhealthy slice of cake). I don’t feel guilty about liking Solek.

[Rockho]

If Solek had a scope like Kopaka would that make him any better?

[Ned_Flanders]

@Votuko

But there is no such thing as “objective goodness” - as a concept, “good” is entirely subjective and depends on what criteria you choose to judge

Let me ask you this; when you are presented two toys, one with brittle and hard to manage pieces, and the other with easily manageable and durable parts, is there any argument that can be used to prove that the brittle one is superior in this aspect?

[Drahcir_Nosnevets]

Appearance? And I agree that whether a toy is good or not is mainly based on your personal opinion. Though if someone threw some crusty plastic bottles at you and said they were toys, I don’t think there’s an argument.

[Ned_Flanders]

@Drahcir_Nosnevets

Appearance?

I take it you didn’t read my entire post?

I had specifically stated “superior in this aspect.” Appearance is completely irrelevant to whether joint tolerances affect the toy.

[Political_Slime]

@Saxton

I’ll just leave it at this: people have their own opinions, and should have the ability to respect the opinions of others, but I’m not really seeing much of that from anyone on this topic.

Thankfully, it’s not up to you to determine what is and what is not respect. As our rules clearly state,

@Jon

###Don’t Do the Moderator’s Job

• Do not play moderator.
• Flag offending content for the staff. That is a legitimate help to us.

I’ve been monitoring this topic closely, and while some people have gotten close to breaking rules, on the whole it has been a fairly civil discussion.

If this topic gets too out of hand, we will deal with it. Otherwise, you need not worry about it. Consider this a first warning, @Saxton.

---

@Votuko

Is this controversial?

Very, though you are correct. By the nature of the word, it is impossible to have objective opinions, as objective (defined by Merriam-Webster) means

“expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.”

The very definition of opinion is personal, as it is

“a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter.”

Thus, the only things that are truly objective are facts. For example, it is an objective fact that spaghetti is a pasta dish typically served with tomato sauce. It is subjective to say, based upon those facts, that it is a good food. Every person has their own unique taste buds. Some will say that the tomato sauce tastes great. Others will say that the tomato sauce tastes awful. Different people interpret the same objective facts differently.

Objectively, Solek is a set released in 2008. It has fragile joints, and is prone to breaking. It has a color scheme of white and gray, with silver pieces here and there. It has a unique mask. It has 14 pieces. Its play function is to attach to Kopaka. Those are all the objective facts that we have regarding Solek.

However, opinions based upon those facts, however, are subjective in their nature. It’s subjective to say that Solek’s color scheme is bland, because not everyone will interpret that fact the same. It’s subjective to say that Solek’s abysmal part count makes it a bad set, because not everyone will agree that a larger part count makes for a better set. It’s not even objective to say that Solek’s bad joints make him an inferior set, because as stated, not everyone takes apart their sets.

Having said all that, this topic is not “Is Solek objectively the worst set?” It is “Why is Solek a hated set?” This deals not with objectivity, but with popular opinion. Many users play with/view their sets in similar ways, and thus have similar views as to what makes a set “good”. Many people enjoy MOCing, so Solek’s mere 14 pieces, while not objectively bad, are popularly a con. Lots of people think that a monochromatic color scheme is boring, and thus Solek is considered popularly a blandly colored set. Pretty much everyone likes taking their sets apart at some point, so fragile joints are popularly negative. These stances are not objective in nature. Despite this, they are the popular opinions of the community, and should be weighed heavily.

tl;dr opinions can’t be objective, but popular stance is important regardless

[ToaArcan]

Solek is probably my least favourite of the 2008 Matoran, not counting Mazeka, who is a downgraded Solek with a different, non-recoloured mask, for the reasons others have stated, to the pointI never bothered to buy him. I bricklinked his Mask and put it on Stars Takanuva.

However, I think he might actually be a better figure than some of the Agori, for two reasons: The jetpack hides how painfully thin his torso is, and the older Y-joints give him better wrist articulation than the Agori have with their fist pieces, something sorely needed on those sets. I’d rather have Solek than Metus, for example.

[keiththelegokid]

@ToaArcan

Solek is probably my least favourite of the 2008 Matoran, not counting Mazeka, who is a downgraded Solek with a different, non-recoloured mask, for the reasons others have stated, to the pointI never bothered to buy him. I bricklinked his Mask and put it on Stars Takanuva.

However, I think he might actually be a better figure than some of the Agori, for two reasons: The jetpack hides how painfully thin his torso is, and the older Y-joints give him better wrist articulation than the Agori have with their fist pieces, something sorely needed on those sets. I’d rather have Solek than Metus, for example.

Metus would have been better if they had just released him as a snake…

[Omega_Tahu]

Let’s look at the pros and cons of Solek:

Pros

• Unique mask
• Combines with Tahu Mistika, My first Bionicle set
• Jetpack fills out hollow back

Cons

• Fixed Joints
• Lack of useful parts for moccing
• Rather Bland color scheme compared to other bionicle sets
• His main play feature is to combine with another set
• Av Matoran Head projects forward

Now, I will say, Solek is still a fun set to play with. Kids like him. But from the view point of a collector or moccer, Solek fails, because of the bland color scheme and lack of new pieces.

[keiththelegokid]

@Omega_Tahu

Lack of useful parts for moccing

Once again…Challenge accepted. Just got to finish my Ultron Moc…

[Omega_Tahu]

@keiththelegokid

Once again…Challenge accepted. Just got to finish my Ultron Moc…

But you see, being able to use them in a moc and them being useful are two separate things. One is a challenge, while the other is being able to look through your part bin and thinking “That piece would work perfectly here!”

[keiththelegokid]

@Omega_Tahu

But you see, being able to use them in a moc and them being useful are two separate things. One is a challenge, while the other is being able to look through your part bin and thinking “That piece would work perfectly here!”

I think that may depends on what parts you think are useful. I think Av-Matoran legs are great for a lot of things. Just none of those things tend to be legs or arms for that matter Also which is more impressive using a piece that no one really uses or using a piece that everyone uses?

[Omega_Tahu]

@keiththelegokid

I think that may depends on what parts you think are useful. I think Av-Matoran legs are great for a lot of things. Just none of those things tend to be legs or arms for that matter Also which is more impressive using a piece that no one really uses or using a piece that everyone uses?

Depends on thq quality of the mocs. If you put a slapped together moc with a Av Maotoran body on the boards, it probably won’t be well recieved. But if you intergrate ot into a moc well, then yeah, people will approve.

But that’s not the point. What I’m trying to say is that you won’t look at a Solek arm and think of a billion ways to use it. It’s very specialized, unlike a Mata hand, which can be used many different ways.

[keiththelegokid]

@Omega_Tahu

you won’t look at a Solek arm and think of a billion ways to use it… unlike a Mata hand, which can be used many different ways.

Uh, I can’t think of a billion ways to use a Mata hand, but I can see a few for Solek’s arms and legs. (That sounds so horrible :P) The first thing that comes to mind is using them for a like bone Scorpion’s legs.

[Omega_Tahu]

@keiththelegokid

Uh, I can’t think of a billion ways to use a Mata hand, but I can see a few for Solek’s arms and legs. (That sounds so horrible :P) The first thing that comes to mind is using them for a like bone Scorpion’s legs.

A billion was a bit of a hyperbole, but yeah, while Mata hands have a ton of uses, the uses for a Solek arm are specialized and few.

[keiththelegokid]

@Omega_Tahu

the uses for a Solek arm are specialized and few.

That doesn’t make the part useless, it just means you have to be smart with how you use it.

P.S. If you are wondering why I changed my avatar. Well I got tired of Hydra jokes

[Omega_Tahu]

@keiththelegokid

That doesn’t make the part useless, it just means you have to be smart with how you use it.

I said it was useless, I just said it was incredibly difficult to use against normal pieces.