No. He did not.
He said:
You may disagree what defines a Metru build, and that’s valid, but you cannot claim that it is canonically defined by one specific piece. That is false.
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That’s your opinion and interpretation on canon, but the fact that retcons like Makuta’s form have happened sets a precedence. It happened then, it can happen now. You’re free to have your opinion, but it’s a problem when you try to force it on people who disagree. Someone forcing their opinions of canon onto others is the problem with these contests.
That much we agree on.
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I can. There is nothing saying that I can’t. There is no evidence that I can’t. Plenty of things in canon are defined by one piece. Masks. Other objects. Crucially-important plot points. The idea that a single piece cannot mean anything in a canon context is an argument from incredulity.
No, Greg literally said they’re Metru builds. That’s the entire reason we have the rule.
That’s an exception, not the rule.
I’m not doing that any more than you are right now by telling me we shouldn’t be consistent with what Bionicle did more often. Greg went out of his way to retcon specific things like set design. There isn’t a good reason to assume that should be the case all the time.
By that logic, all of canon already does this by forcing concrete ideas and facts into officiality.
…so you concede that I’m right and having to retcon a design right as it wins is counterintuitive?
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And what that means has been debated for months, so don’t act like it’s settled just because TTV said so.
Anything that’s canon is the rule.
It is consistent with what Bionicle did, but whether it has to be consistent with what Bionicle did “more often” (whatever that may mean to different people) is simply opinion.
Canon has been pretty much locked for a decade. Fans have created many headcanons during that time to fill in the gaps that were missing. These contests undermine that. If you can’t see the difference, I don’t know what else to say.
I said I agree with you that “there’s no point to having a canon contest if we’re going to have to immediately negate the results.” That almost happened twice with Helryx and the quote where Greg said she’s dark blue (but fortunately thanks to the vague wording, it doesn’t necessarily contradict) and the Hagah quote that the other four are like Norik and have differently shaped masks. If that quote had been found only a few months later, it could’ve ruined the Hagah contest. That’s not the same as allowing custom builds for the Hagah because of a simple difference in interpreting canon.
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This debate has cemented my belief that we need more frequent votes to continue/discontinue the contests. It’s just diplomatic.
That said, I do suspect there will still be at least a slight majority in favour of continuing the contests. But at least by getting to vote, ‘Team Cancel’ won’t feel imprisoned by the arbitrary rule that the next vote will only happen after Lariska (which might even get pushed back again, as it has before).
That being said, even if 60% of people say “yes, continue the contests”, you have to wonder whether it’s worth continuing them anyway when the community survived just fine without them for so long.
Maybe I’m wrong, but the community felt like a much tamer place before the contests came along. Keeping everyone complacent feels better than making some people more entertained and some people more frustrated.
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Logical fallacy: lack of evidence against something does not prove it. There needs to be evidence that the Metru build is that one piece.
And hey, I’ll grant you that there is actually a really good piece of evidence for it: the fact that every Metru build set uses it. But is that evidence alone enough to say it’s the only way to make a Metru build? Consider this:
A) the Metru are from an era of clone sets. If the Metru came out in 2008, would they use that piece?
B) the Metru are sets, not mocs. If a fan designed the Toa Metru, would they use the same piece?
So I’ll say this: yes, a Metru build is easiest to make by using the gearbox, but it’s possible to make one without it. I’ve done it, Dag’s done it (two different ways). Lego wouldn’t have done it, because that would push the budget of the set past the canister build. But Lego also wouldn’t have put out something like this as a set. That’s the point of MOC contests. We’re not doing set design contests.
I’m going to stop you right there.
This is not the argument. Never has been.
Greg has NEVER said “they all use the same torso”.
You continue to say “Greg said I’m right, therefore it’s canon.” That’s not the debate, the debate is whether your interpretation of his words is canon.
“The Hagah canonically have Metru builds” != “The Hagah canonically have Metru torsos”
There. I cleared it up for you. Now let’s move on 
That’s a ‘does not equal’ sign for you non-programmers out there
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Wait a minute, it’s like Team Avatar but the prophesied one is… cancellation of contests… that doesn’t work… 
I’ll admit here that I’m actually interested in seeing the Lariska contest, though that’s only because I want to see more Lariska MOCs, not because I want a canon Lariska. But I absolutely agree with you that the votes should be more frequent and having one before the Lariska contest would be prudent.
To this I would say–since the community survived, it can continue to survive, and these contests aren’t helping. It’s things like Quest for Mata Nui that really help by getting the community excited rather than half-excited and more divided than it was.
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The voting period’s over soooooooooo…yeah, it’s kinda settled.
Do you know what an exception is? Genuine question, I’m not trying to be inflammatory, because that response makes no sense if you know what it means.
I mean, it’s common sense that what happens more often is the more likely/reasonable outcome. Like, that’s a fundamental principle of logic.
People form headcanons even as new stuff comes out. If canon cannot be added to trampling on headcanons, and if that’s reason enough not to add to canon, then no canon should ever be added onto ever in any capacity, even through ongoing sequels/episodes of a franchise.
And if that’s true, I’m right.
That wasn’t noticed until after the contest, and nothing was really done about it.
But…it wasn’t. That never happened, and if it had, referring back to the Helryx incident, nothing would really have come of it because Greg’s “sure” would be set in stone.
They’re “Metru-styled builds.” There was only one type of build that could have been at the time Greg dropped that little nugget, so he really could only have been thinking of one thing. Ignoring his comment on Metru torsos would be akin to ignoring any of his other comments, all for a slightly-more-flush Inika pauldron for a chestpiece.
I didn’t say it did. I’m saying you can’t prove a negative. That doesn’t really mean either of us is right or wrong, but it does mean that until you bring up concrete evidence that a single piece cannot decide anything about canon, you’re really just arguing from incredulity.
Until there is evidence to the contrary, there is no reason to believe it’s not. There is evidence that all vertebrates share a common ancestor, and I will continue to believe they do until the fossil record turns up a good counterexample.
None of this matters because this is not what happened.
You’re just getting into semantics at this point, and as I said, the odds are slim that Greg could have meant anything else.
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Excpt this isn’t true as Makuta is depicted like ultimate dume in the comics which takes precedncy over the movies
guys guys guys, these contests should end, it’s been so negative.
I WONDER WHY, JOHNNY
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I may not have stated that clearly, so let me connect it with this:
What I’m trying to say is, if Lego made a Metru set in 2004/2005, it had to use the Metru gearbox. But that doesn’t prove that a Metru Build has to use it, only that lego had to.
This might be a bit pedantic, but only the rules are settled. What a Metru build is has still not settled, if this debate is anything to go by.
All right, I’m going to ask you this. This isn’t meant as a gotcha question, I’m just curious as to what you think:
If I showed Greg Dag’s custom Metru build, do you think he would say it is a Metru Build? Do you think he would say that in 2005 when he said they were Metru builds?
Yeah, of course he meant the design Lego used for canister set Metru Toa from 2004-2005. Those were the only Toa Metru we had. But I don’t think we can even say that Greg would look at a custom build and say “nah, that’s not a Metru build.”
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Like, what is it even about at this point? Legitimately trying to convince the other person that they’re wrong with phacts and logicx? Or is it an ego thing? I can’t tell.
These - discussions - have - been - had. Could we -please- just fricking give it a break?
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That’s not helpful at all. If you’re implying that the people wanting the contests to end are the reason they’ve been negative, that’s just not the case. Such people have been a decidedly quiet minority thus far, and plenty of inflammatory remarks from people who like the contests have contributed to the overall negativity.
Yes–we could abandon the contests. That would result in a break of all discussions on the topic.
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It’s what Lego did do, regardless of why.
That no longer matters, though. The rules have done their work. There’s nothing that we can get by going back and forth about it anymore.
Alright, this is hard to be certain about because it’s a hypothetical, but knowing Greg…I think he’d say “that’s not a Metru build.”
Look at his quotes on Nidhiki. He doesn’t think visually, but he does seem to have very clear, unshakeable ideas about what his characters should and shouldn’t be when he does make up certain details, and they’re also really oddly specific. That being the case, he’d probably stick to his incredibly-specific guns.
What I’m saying is, the negativity has nothing to do with the contests being inherently flawed. It’s the people that make things living hell. Just as easily as they’ve devolved into toxicity, these contests could be a net positive thing in the community if people would just not be so negative and egomaniacal.
Saying we have to abandon the contests to end the negativity is an exaggeration and everyone knows it. The only thing we need to do to end the arguing is to try, for one minute, to make something in a mile’s distance of an attempt at making the contests positive.
But I’m proving my own point. If you all wanna have your discussions again, go for it I guess. I’m out.
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I mean, all right. I’m glad these contests make some people happy. I’ve seen some cool builds in them, and the creativity definitely surprises me.
If that is the case, then I… have to reluctantly agree that you are probably correct. A custom build would not match Greg’s view of canon, if you’re correct.
Yes, I’m still saying IF. I’ll grant, your view on his thought process is probably right. I just don’t want to say definitively what he would say.
Maybe I’m just being stubborn, I don’t know.
Again, that’s how you choose to intepret what Greg said. I’m choosing to intepret it differently. The difference between you and me is that I’m saying you can have your opinion and we can just agree to disagree. You’re saying that you’re right, that’s that, and that my opinion has no place in this canon contest. That attitude makes it impossible for us to have a genuine discussion.
For other Stars, yes, there actually is an in-universe change in armor, like Gresh[3] [4] [5] and Tahu,[5] but the Skrall is just regular, only green instead of red,[6] [7] and there is no definitive explanation for Takanuva or Nektann that I could find. Even outside of the Stars there are examples, namely Gold Good Guy, who was canonized as Turaga Lhikan,[8][9] despite having the same Great Hau instead of a Noble. Or how Ultimate Dume is (probably? there’s conflicting answers[10][11]) the same exact form as 2003 Makuta, only with wings.
And so you decide to mock people who say they should end, as if that somehow helps either side of the debate?
Speaking for myself, the only reason I brought up the metru debate again is to make the larger point that I and others don’t appreciate how TTV has been handling the contests, and so they should either stop completely, or be handled better. Until either happens, its a discussion that should continue to be had.
Literally no one disagrees with you. Like I said, things need to remain civil. If that can happen without ending the contests, great. If not, they should end too.
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