BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

Maybe you should reconsider whether or not following these contests are worth the amount of stress you get out of it, then.

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Yee and let just whatever get canon, not a chance. I wish the contest were better at regulating what can be entered in general maybe then I could stop careing so much as I’d be more likely to end up not minding the winners as much. However backing out of them isn’t an option whether or not you want to believe it this contest affects the entire community either way.

Besides all prior contest organized by lego always specified to build you moc using parts from your Bionicle collection. I don’t see how that rule isn’t relevant here?

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I mean, not to try and belittle you or anything, but uh … It’s not like you, or anyone else, can make a difference on their own.

And if being part of a group means making this topic what it is, maybe we should just step back and let TTV do their thing and propose their rulesets to us, and then we could critique it.

I’m not sure there’s been one suggestion in any of the arguments on any of the topics that’s been actually implemented. Actually, now that I think about it, I do remember there being one or two, about masks and such. But none of the major arguing points I can remember.

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My point was just that doing nothing is going to be equally if not more stressful for me as partaking.

Because if I partook I at least I can feel like I tried to make a difference instead of doing nothing. Relieving me of at least some of the stress of being unable to do anything

I’m not a defeatist and currently its not only the contest that has gotten me down. It was a certain event that happend yesterday. I certainley wasn’t this down on wednesday or a week ago.

I am critiqueing, their ruleset has been set for the contests in general and Im suggesting a rule to be added because I feel its missing from the current rules.

Please stop trying to excuse everything TTV does like they are perfect. its annoying having my concerns negated under the banner that they cant do no wrong, every time you respond to me. Im allowed to critique them, ask questions to them or give suggestions to them. they should be allowed to answer them as well if they want to.

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@Winger
@Tarkur

I side more with Tarkur in this case.

During the Helryx contest, didn’t they change the voting system after one person suggested it? I think if a rule is flawed, people in the community should respectfully provide suggestions as to how to make it better.

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When the interest in the contests has continuously grown from contest to contest, with each one drawing in more people than the last, a few people having second thoughts is hardly going to convince TTV (or even Ghid) that the majority opinion has shifted.

Plus, unless it’s a contest voting round, most people who would vote in favor of the contest wouldn’t know about it unless TTV did the world’s biggest campaign for it. Otherwise you’re left with all the people who want the canon contests to end and anyone else who’s been paying attention, and the end result is hardly representative of the whole. Another reason why a revote is problematic.

I think this perfectly illustrates my point. If new user statistics are anything to go off of, the vast majority of people who participate in the canon contests are heavily in favor of them continuing, as like I said earlier, each one brings even more people, who then immediately tune out and wait elsewhere for the next one. Any kind of revote is going to be skewed.

It’s giving us an indicator of how many people change their minds about the contest (and become vocal) versus the increasing popularity of the contests themselves. I understand you want to have a revote to see how many people actually want these contests, but I think you don’t want that number yet. If everyone involved actually voted on that poll, you’d completely lose any argument for a revote in the future, if the contest data is any indicator.

Also, some more arguments in favor of shutting the contest down would help. Ceterum censeo agonem esse terminandum.

After the Helryx contest the system of voting was entirely redesigned to give people a fairer outcome and avoid the Hoseryx scenario from occurring again. To date it’s the only implementation which was introduced as a suggestion by non-staff (although I forget who suggested it).

You’re approaching from the mindset that you can do no else and are forced into this position by TTV’s decision to have canon contests at all. TTV can definitely do wrong, but maybe they’ve done less wrong than that implies.

If you’re not, though, please say so because that’s really how your comments read.

I’m not sure which rule Tarkur’s proposing as a lot is going on here and I probably missed it, but I think the argument here is less what he’s doing and more why he’s doing it - desperation and being fed up with everything thus far and also watching Sokoda’s work of art get trampled into a fine paste.

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All I’m saying is that I’m allowed to have opinions about the contests and that I should have at the very least have them heard. Without a third party immediately shut it down on the pre concived notion that it will bother the people its direct towards.

As for the rule I’m proposing:

This is from November of 2020.

I’m pretty sure that I was the first to suggest designer-consent changes, rather than the changes being all-or-nothing.

Dude.

I really dislike so much about the rules in these contests. I’m not trying to paint them as perfect. I know they aren’t. I even have issues with TTV that are totally unrelated to the contest.

But it feels like I’m the only one trying to look past what I want for the contests and realize how much TTV is already dealing with.

It’s just a suggestion, but: how would you feel if you put hours, and hours, and hours and hours and hours into organizing contests for something you love and care about, only to be smothered by countless thousands of posts filled with negativity, arguments, and vitriol. Maybe it wasn’t directed at you specifically, but it would be your responsibility.

That’s the position TTV is in right now.

So maybe we could just try and leave them alone? Maybe … maybe your concerns can wait until a time where there’s less controversy in the matter? What I’m saying is, maybe you could be a little more tactful in demanding what you want, thinking about how it affects them and puts even more stress and negativity on them, instead of just charging ahead with no reserve.

I’m really not trying to put you down or shut you up. But it’s really, really disheartening when something you put hours of work into gets an inordinate level of loud negative feedback.

I’m just asking you to put aside yourself and what you want and see their side of things.

Just my thoughts. Feel free to ignore them or whatever, I guess I shouldn’t really try and speak for them anyways.

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Oh, huh. Guess I missed that.

Well, thank you for the suggestion, because that design rule for the Hagah has been exceptionally helpful with preserving people’s creative integrity if they want that element to remain consistent.

I hardly think that’s Winger’s objective here (he’s typing rn so we’ll see what he says) but TTV being bothered is a legitimate concern when they’ve been putting their health (and jobs) on the line for the sake of the canon contest, and then having all of their effort ignored in detractions against the contest occurring at all.

As for the rule: I think that’s going to be a difficult one to enforce due to what pieces qualify as constraction - do technic elements count, and if so how far does that description go - but at the same time, how many of the entries thus far have been more than 25% system? Definitely none of the finalists (outside of Hoseryx, who was 90% background) and the one extremely tall Artakha. In fact, almost all the entries have had no system whatsoever, so I don’t think it’s a rule we need when barely anyone is abusing the free reign. The winning Artakha used a slight sprinkling of system and the winning Helryx used none (unless the tube counts as system but I digress).

A good rule, without a doubt, and in any other scenario I would agree (barring TTV having to then moderate each entry for a part count) - but here I think the community, probably for the first time, is efficiently moderating itself.

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I agree that the rule is unnecessary, but for a different reason. If a model is system and people like It, why shouldn’t be accepted?

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Since when did anything I said in here become top priority for TTV? They can still do whatever they are doing without spending time on answering my question. Which they already seems to be doing.

If they have a lot on their plate maybe they should consider reaching out for help with moderation? I haven’t once asked them to answer any of my questions the only thing I’ve done is asked them and then you have a minute after its posted replied with, “You shouldn’t post that, its putting stress on TTV”

I’m in no way expecting or forcing TTV to answer my questions. I have a month old question in here I’m still waiting for an answer for yet TTV has also made it pretty obvious that they don’t intend to interupt any discussion going on in here unless absolutely neccessary and even then the metru build argument took forever.

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Welp.

I guess I tried.

I don’t think there’s much to discuss here anymore. I’m not seeing your side and I don’t think you’re seeing mine.

At least we stayed away from ad hominem on this one lol.

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Yeah, uh

Probably because there wasn’t one.

I think whoever said that got confused with the order poll, which was supposed to decide who would be next.

In which Eljay was fairly adamant that they would not be voting to cancel the contests yet.

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Because Bionicle = Bionicle system, further strengthening my opinion that Bionicle is a different building system entirely, I’M RIGHT YOU PEOPLE!! THE PROOF IS RIGHT HERE!!!

However older contests also allowed you to mutilate weaponry like in the case of Charger in the Dark hunters contest, so I don’t think the older contests should be held as too high of a standard.

I’ve always wondered how Vezok passed off being a Toa of Water when he’s, y’know… a he. DividingTheGendersByTribeWasSoStupidWhoEvenThoughtOfItOhMyGod

I will say there are a few entries I’m surprised didn’t get Rule 11’d both in the Artakha contest and this one.

I might be mistaken, but wasn’t that the exception rather than the rule? Could’ve sworn that the rules at the time prevented such things, and Charger just happened to fall through the cracks.

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at least in my opinion the LEGO sanctioned canon contest winners have a really good cohesion with the rest of the G1 sets. Helryx contest is still my go to for how dangerous canon contest can be without proper regulation. It was also the most free contest and that shows in the finalists. The Arthaka contest was more free than the Hagah were but I still think most of the finalists were of base and its a relief that Connors moc won that one. The next contest will go back to that more lenient rule set and its just a question of time until something that is 75% system bricks makes it into canon.

You don’t need to agree with me after all this is just my opinion and how I feel. I’m not gonna argue with you if you disagree because we have different outlooks on stuff. My enjoyment from Bionicle comes from that I feel there is a distinct cohesion between the sets and canon models. So I’m pretty scared of that cohesion getting ruined. Since I’m going to be very protective here I think its not worth while starting a larger debated over an opinion I’m expressing

I think that was 2000s marketing thinking boys wouldn’t want to play with female action figures. The 2000s had a very different view on this kind of stuff

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This is all based on assumptions and is ultimately besides the point. You and the TTV staff are more active here than the rest of us, so certainly you’re a better judge on what the popular opinion seems to be. But even your qualitative data is skewed. Concrete, yes/no data is king when we have a community as big as this.

And I will refer you to this:

If Team Cancel can see some concrete proof that they’re in a sheer minority, maybe it might be a little less vocal.

And this:

Can’t you say essentially the same thing about the original poll? And if there are so many people voting, all with accounts already, why don’t TTV just direct people towards these continue/discontinue polls at the end of the videos where they announce the winning entries?

visible pain

Okay, that was actually a good joke. For what it’s worth, though, I regularly forget who the Toa Mangai are and couldn’t care less about seeing their physical appearance. If there was a canon contest for them (apart from Tuyet and Nidhiki), that would definitely be too much. For me, anyway. People who know BIONICLE lore better might like it. :stuck_out_tongue:

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99% of conversation I’ve seen here has been respectful and sensible, and 99% of negativity is the result of a deep passion for Bionicle. If it’s felt stressful or frustrating, it’s because we’re dealing with issues people care incredibly deeply about. No wonder there’s so much debate and disagreement.

I understand the perspective that we shouldn’t burden TTV. And I empathise with them a great deal for having to manage these contests. However I don’t agree with the sentiment that we should just shove all our concerns in a box because it alleviates managerial strain.

If TTV are stressed, demotivated or overworked right now, that indicates a serious managerial issue, and they need to invest in resolving it. More mods, longer setup periods, whatever. Failing that, they need to give the job to someone else.

Civil debates done with good intentions cannot just stop - Bionicle fans care too much.

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