Yes, I know this, and I agree with it. It’s a matter of convincing the rest of the community.
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So I just realized I misread your post; I thought you were saying that your stance was an ambiguous weapon.
Well, my point is the same, just not directed at you. Sorry for snipping at you for something we agree upon.
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It’s all good, I understand.
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This is a blatant misconception.
Jun 11, 2007: Greg posts The Many Deaths of Toa Tuyet on BZPower.[1] Her Mask of Intangibility is mentioned, but no weapon (besides the Nui Stone).
Jul 2, 2007: Greg says her mask and weapon will “be revealed soon” on BionicleStory.[2]
Sep 26, 2007: Greg hasn’t determined what her weapon is.[3]
Nov 6, 2007: Greg says it’s unlikely her weapon would be in Into the Darkness.[4]
Jan 15, 2008: Greg says we’ll find out what her weapon is when she shows up in the story.[5]
Winter 2008(?): Dark Mirror is released on BionicleStory and mentions her Mask of Intangibility. Makuta impersonating Tuyet wields a barbed broadsword, but she herself never does.
While it was probably his intention, Greg never stated anywhere, in answers or canon material, that the broadsword was Tuyet’s weapon, AU or otherwise. I couldn’t care less about the sword, but to say giving her a different weapon would be “rewriting established canon” is just not true.
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I feel like this discussion wouldn’t be getting had if TTV would say whether or not they have asked or will ask Greg about it
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In that case then, I am fully in favor of sword-optional, but tool-mandated. The sword would be a choice that MOCists can add, and, if the community thinks Tuyet should have it, she shall.
After giving literally every piece of evidence that Greg 100% intended for Tuyet to wield a barbed Broadsword – alternate, prime, composite – wielded the weapon that he gave her – your counter is “well, he’s never technically said it, so it isn’t confirmed.”
Yes. The mastermind who took over the entire universe by manipulating everyone, also gave the most (in)famous Toa in the world at that point a weapon that she never uses.
But let’s say, for a moment, that it isn’t confirmed because “it isn’t said explicitly”. Okay: you said it yourself:
Should we just ignore Greg’s intentions? Greg has given every intention that he could, short of outright stating it, that he intended for Prime Tuyet to have a BB gun in canon. If we’re willing to ignore that for canon contests, then we might as well ignore everything else he’s said in the Ask Gregs.
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Yes, it is. You said giving Tuyet any other weapon would rewrite established canon. I don’t deny that the broadsword being her weapon was most likely Greg’s intention, nor should Greg’s intentions be ignored, but saying it’s established canon just isn’t true. It’s open to interpretation.
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dang it why do I keep arguing with people I agree with today?
I… can see what you’re saying here. Perhaps “rewriting Greg’s intention for the character” is more accurate to what I was trying to say. I’d still call it established canon based on the fact it was written in a canon story, but that’s getting into semantics at that point.
Right now, having seen the discussion that has been had over the last couple of weeks, I will say (personally) I see the merit in allowing the Sword, but not mandating it… but also not allowing other weapons. And then further allowing the Nui Stone to be canonized if it’s included in artwork, but further not mandating it either.
This would allow for the greatest degree of interpretation for the character, and would allow for the Sword to be canonized if it’s included. The reason against other weapons would be the lack of anything suggesting she used any other tool. At least with Teriyet, there’s a reasonable argument suggesting that if no other character had a weapon change, then neither would she. But since it is Teriyet, and not Tuyet, I can understand why some wouldn’t include the sword.
People have suggested that this would put illustrations not featuring the stone or the Sword at a disadvantage. And while that’s possible, that is ultimately the result of having the choice to include or exclude either of those tools. It’s something to be weighed equally by entrants and voters.
No official stance yet, still listening to discussions. Thank you all for keeping it civil, it is a huge help.
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I’m not sure I understand this sentence. Not mandating the Broadsword I get, but my first impression on reading that is a contradiction. Would it be accurate to say that Tuyet would likely be mandated to wield a sword but not specificially the Barbed Broadsword?
This proposed rule feels like its trying to play both (contradicting) sides the argument.
If the Barbed Broadsword is made optional, then that means that we are recognizing that’s its appearance in Dark Mirror is not enough to substantively link it to Prime Tuyet’s appearance, and we don’t know what Prime Tuyet’s Toa Tool is. Then, if no tool is linked to Prime Tuyet, then why should any tool be banned?
Conversely, if any tools other than the Barbed Broadsword are banned, then it means that we recognize the aforementioned tool as being linked to Prime Tuyet through its appearance in Dark Mirror, and it should therefore be mandated.
One thing I want to point out because it’s kinda interesting:
I was originally going to point out that Greg gave this a name: the Barbed Broadsword, capitalized – and it would be odd if he did that and didn’t intend to make it her weapon in the prime universe. After all, Pohatu just grabbed “an axe”–
Then I checked DM just to be sure I wasn’t spreading unintentional misinformation, and nope, Pohatu grabbed a Protosteel Axe, also capitalized. That might be just because “protosteel” is an actual Bionicle term and it would be weird to capitalize it and not axe, but I just thought it interesting to note.
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If anyone knows for sure, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the original Dark Mirror was an audio podcast. The transcription was done by fans, so the capitalization probably doesn’t mean anything significant.
It should be noted that (according to BS01) Dark Mirror was originally an audio podcast. The text on BS01 and other websites is transcription written by someone other than Greg.
(Also, where are you reading it from? The one I’m looking at capitalizes it as “Protosteel axe”.)
In other words, I read the post too quickly. That definitely makes sense now.
Huh. Mine’s literally just a copy from BS01 that I saved for offline reading. Guess someone edited the word axe to be uncap at some point since I did so.
I always thought there was an “official” text version of the audio serials, based on the fact that (by my memory) Sahmad’s tale had a typo that was left in on BS01 because it was in the original. I can’t find any reference to the ST typo now though, and apparently typographical stuff has been edited (the whole Axe/axe thing) so either I misremembered, or I’m remembering a different story.
On the note of mandating the sword, I’d like to point out that up until now, every character had their weapons mandated. Heck, for the Hagah, some art entries were asked to add the shields – and we all know what a RLS looks like. I could see an argument being made that maybe she didn’t always have it with her, and the portrayal could just be her without the sword… but surely that logic applies to other weapons, too? Artakha probably had that big hammer hanging on the wall when he wasn’t using it to forge stuff and hit people. The Hagah and Helryx likely set their weapons down somewhere, or got disarmed, at some point. Yet their full equipment has always been mandated.
The Nui Stone is a bit trickier, because it isn’t really a “weapon” so much as an “item”. Those have been allowed (the Avohkii in the Hagah contest) and also banned (the Staff of Artakha in the Artakha contest). The latter was based on the logic that Artakha never wielded the staff, that we know of; he just made it and sent it off, much like the Great Disks, the Avohkii, the spear of fusion*, etc. The Hagah, however, definitely carried the Avohkii, and Tuyet definitely carried the Nui Stone – a lot. Based on the Hagah, I’d say it could be “allowed but not mandated”. Though one could argue it’s part of her iconic, standard equipment, unlike the Hagah, who only had the Avohkii that one time.
*Some ambiguity here: the wording “artakha made it” does leave open the possibility that it was the residents of the island of Artakha, and not the big man himself. Though with the Staff, Greg specifically said “he made it” (emphasis mine)
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It sorta is, which is generally the goal in most disagreements - compromise where possible, if there is no clear-cut answer.
It’s because while we have at least have something canon that links “a Tuyet” to a specific weapon, we have nothing to suggest any other weapon. There is at least the suggestion that Teridax having that tool while impersonating her, it’s a weapon that Tuyet wields to some extent. Everything else was identical. And seeing as no other weapons wielded by characters were modified, the argument stands that it could be her Toa Tool in the prime universe.
This is just an argument though, and since only Teriyet wielded it and it hasn’t been seen elsewhere, if anyone is uncomfortable with that logic or rational, they can exclude it from a MOC and/or art.
The primary difference between the Avohkii and the Staff being that those characters never utilized it. Tuyet is intrinsically tied to the Nui Stone - she has never appeared without it. Everything about her character and her appearances in the story revolves around it.
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Oh, definitely; I’m not saying it’s an exact comparison, it’s simply the closest thing we have right now. The point of my post was to point out precedents for “weapons” and “items” and those are the only “items” we’ve seen/discussed so far.
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