BIONICLE G1 Canon Contests Discussion & Questions

LEGO BIONICLE
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3306

Here’s an additional side profile for anyone on the fence if they want to use this building method for their moc.

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I’d even go as far as to say its not even inherently a ‘feminine’ style. I got inspired by this guy’s combat harness afterall.

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On an unrelated note. I’ve noticed in bricklink when you use the color search, I’ve found flat dark gold doesn’t bring up all of its search options. I’ve found round plates also come in flat dark gold, along with Tile, Modified 1 x 2 Grille with Bottom Groove / Lip-although there is not a confirmed photo. I am trying to get photo clarification before purchasing. The photo I have with it is in pearl gold, not flat
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3307

What would qualify as a “standard mask”? I may use a silver Kanohi Nuva, but this may raise questions as to which Toa this mask honored. I think it wouldn’t be out of the question for some other unknown Toa to have a Kanohi Nuva (or a mask with the same shape), but we should clarify what would or wouldn’t be considered “standard”.

I’d say the Ignika/Vahi should not be allowed. But what about an organic Kanohi? Kanohi Nuva? A Glatorian helmet? A multi-part head? A (single color) painted mask? Dare I say, a Hero Factory helmet? Personally I would love if these were allowed, that just means I could add more to my Kanohi collection if one became a canon mask. Also it makes the rules more simple, and allows for more creativity.

So the rule I propose is: With the exception of legendary Kanohi, any official Lego parts on the head can become a canon Kanohi for the Toa Hagah, and can be painted a single color if desired.

Disregarding paint/HF, there is precedent for this in previous contests (Miserix, Trinuma, Tobduk).

3308

Maybe. We aren’t given an exact timeline on when the Hagah were formed, but if it was after Jovan’s Team’s mission, then one of the Hagah could theoretically be honouring the Toa that sacrificed himself.

I would say not allowed. The Vahi had not yet been crafted when the Hagah were formed, so no past hero could have worn it (and no one would know what it looked like).

Again probably not, since those masks were unique to the Inika, and the Hagah were formed long before the time of the Inika.

See above. The Kanohi Nuva worn by Tahu’s team are confirmed to be the first of their kind.

I don’t think anyone is the Matoran Universe (at least no one involved with the formation of the Hagah) would have known about the Glatorian, so probably not.

Yes. Painted masks are allowed, as long as it follows any other guidelines, like those that we are discussing right now.

Yes, these are allowed. If such a mask won, it would become the canon shape of a previously unseen Kanohi of unknown power.

This is already allowed.

3309

I definitely love bionicle chicken’s design of Orde, and seeing I’ll be entering that canon contest, I’m sure you’ll be able to guess who I’m drawing inspiration from

3310

Anything that isn’t Immoral, Nuva, Legendary, or one-offs (Avohkii, Kraahkan, stuff like that). Nothing outside of the Matoran Universe, including other themes. That would be my current stance.

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3311

Given that the Tobduk set uses an organic mask as its design, I think the organic masks should be allowed (or at least, the Sanok).

As for the Nuva masks, while the Toa Nuva were to first to have actual Kanohi Nuva, those shapes may have appeared before. For instance, the Phase Dragon has the Miru Nuva design on it. Someone might have had their mask designed after this Rahi.

Also, the GSR was built on Spherus Magna, the Great Beings could have been inspired by existing Glatorian helmets to design some masks.

I do understand the counterargument to this, though. This could lead to some confusion regarding the canon reason for the design. While I’d like for the Miru Nuva to be allowed (mainly because it looks nice), I’m not going to die on this hill if Eljay disagrees.

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3312

The thing is, some Immoral Kanohi are only considered so because of their association with the evil of the Makuta. Since the Hagah had their armour and masks forged at a time when the Makuta were considered benevolent, their masks wouldn’t have had this stigma*. Heck, it’s even possible that one of the “past heroes” was a Makuta.

Fair enough.

Again, the Kraahkan was worn by Teridax at a time when he was considered a hero. I agree for the Avohkii, though, since no one had ever worn it at the time.

Makes sense

I disagree with this. I think there should be an opportunity to introduce new mask shapes. I can understand disallowing Hero Factory helmets because of the microphones and actual faces molded into some of the pieces. But it doesn’t make sense to disallow all non-Bionicle mask pieces, especially since 3d-printed parts could introduce new mask shapes anyways (or will the rules be different for 3d-prints for the Hagah?). (Also, is G2 included in “other themes”? Or would they be allowed under your current idea?)

This is another Krakua situation: Tobduk canonically wears a standard Sanok (whatever that looks like), not an organic one. And again, no one would have ever had an organic mask before at the time that the Hagah were formed, so there couldn’t have been any “past hero”.

Now, if the masks are gong to be changed in the Art (and if there will even be multiple stages in the first place), then I see no problem with allowing organic masks as placeholders.

Just because a set/official model uses a certain pieces does not mean that it translates 1:1 in the “true appearance”.

Even if they were “inspired”, Kanohi and Glatorian masks have radically different structures. Any hypothetical “Glatorian-inspired” Kanohi would be too modified to be able to use the original Glatorian helmet as a Kanohi.

*Some masks are immoral for other, non-Makuta reasons, and should probably be disallowed

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3313

I might copy your technique if you don’t mind, I have some ideas that could improve it :smile:

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3314

My answer was in response to what constitutes a “standard mask,” in terms of what wouldn’t necessitate an art contest, not what would only be allowed to be used.

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3315

So if a “non-standard mask” wins, there’s an Art Contest, but otherwise there’s not?

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3316

That is how I would do it. Nothing has been decided.

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3317

What about masks that we’ve only seen one of, but remain unconfirmed either way? Stuff like the Rode/Mask of Psychometry/etc.

I’d imagine they’d then wear his main mask, rather than the Ignika, which has other connotations.

If I wanted to “honor” Matoro as a toa, I’d pick the shape of an Iden or maybe even the Akaku (I’m hesitant to say the mask he was wearing at the time, a Tryna, just because it happens to be an immoral mask). But in the case of this other Toa, whatever mask he was wearing at the time would seem a more logical pick than the Ignika itself, especially since many people wouldn’t know what the Ignika looks like.

Hypothetically, it might also need to be the Heroes/VNOG form of the mask, to fit with canon. I’m not sure if it’s specified what form the mask was in at that time.

Now that’s an interesting thought.

3318

I have to agree a lot right here. Teridax wasn’t a baddie at the time.
Plus an additional point on this-its one of the only flat dark gold masks we have of someone we KNEW for sure was considered a hero after the League of Six Kingdoms war.

3319

A lot of my points still stand though, in terms of what should be considered “standard” masks.

If someone introduces a new shape, that unknown Kanohi is no more or less “standard” than a Hau (canonically, at least). The only Kanohi that I can really see as being “non-standard” are the ones that no one could have possibly been wearing when the Hagah were formed (organic masks, Nuva masks, Avohkii).

Again: there are equally good canon reasons for any of the Hagah to be wearing a Hau-shaped mask, a Kraahkan-shaped mask, or even a previously-unseen-shaped mask (this includes masks from other themes).

Also, I (personally) think that the yes/no decision for having an Art Contest should be made independent of the winning MOCs; either say that the Art can change the masks to whatever the artist wants (regardless of the MOC mask), or say that the MOC masks are canon and disallow the use of certain “anachronistic” masks (organic, Nuva, Avohkii, Vahi)

(Also, I could understand disallowing the Legendaries for other reasons)

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3320

I will fight against immoral masks. There is no reason under the sun a Toa would be wearing a Kanohi that Toa do not approve of. And yes, that includes the Kraahkan. I find it silly to push for the opposite.

Meso somewhat disagrees with me here, but were it up to me I would run the contest as a bit of a free-for-all, allowing both art and MOCs to run alongside each other for the Hagah. That allows the most creative expression within the theme of these specific characters. It would also potentially reduce the potential amount of contests we’d need to do for them, assuming some Hagah just wrap up with a MOC.

It would be complex, however, so it’s possibly not the best way to go about it. A straight forward way would be just how we’ve been running them, with MOCs first and Art later. At that point, I’d want a streamlined list of masks that could be considered “final.” So if Kualus’s MOC wins with a KauKau, then it doesn’t need to be changed in the art, because he could have a mask shaped as a KauKau.

Again, nothing set in stone. Just a perspective.

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3321

You’re right. I was so focused on the “Makuta” aspect of it that I completely forgot the Kraahkan was considered immoral for other reasons.

Actually, now that I look at it, that goes for the rest of the Makuta masks as well; most of them were considered immoral for non-Makuta reasons.

The only two immoral masks that are immoral purely because of their Makuta association are the Shelek and the Felnas. So to me, those two should be allowed because they would not have been immoral when the Hagah were created.

Otherwise, I’m indifferent to disallowing Immoral Kanohi (as long as it is their power that is immoral, not just the fact that a Makuta wore it).

When it comes to setting the final shape of the masks, be it through Art or MOC, I think all we can do is set a list of disallowed masks, rather than an allowed list; custom masks, or otherwise never-before-seen-in-Bionicle designs should be allowed to be canonized. The only disallowed masks would be the organic ones, Nuva masks, Legendary masks, Immorally-powered Kanohi, and the Avohkii.

Finally, however the contests get done, whether it’s MOC-only, or the usual two-stage setup, or even a free-for-all, I think the format should be decided upon before the contests start, rather than changing based on what mask won the MOC Contest. As well, it needs to be consistent for all types of masks; if a winning MOC Kaukau is considered canon, then a winning MOC custom mask should be considered canon as well; if the Art section is allowed to change a custom mask, then it should also be allowed to change a Kaukau to something else. (assuming that there is even a two-stage setup)

Because again: with the exception of the disallowed masks, all Kanohi are equally “standard” in canon, even if we have never seen them before.

Personally, I would run it in the usual two-stage fashion, except the MOC masks are canon. Then, even though the canon masks are aleady set by the MOCs, you would still have an Art Contest, both to eliminate any potential “custom parts on BS01” shenanigans, and because the Art is usually pretty cool. Note that, in this case, the Disallowed Masks List would be implemented for the MOC section.

Maybe the Art Contest could be a single contest for a group shot of the four winning MOCs plus Norik and Iruini? That would cut down on the number of contests being run at a time. However, if it were done this way, the MOC masks would need to be canon, to avoid a situation where someone prefers the Kualus mask in one group shot, but the Bomonga mask from another; each group shot would show the same masks.

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3323

Such designs should be fair game. All it would mean is that those designs are not the standard shapes of the Hagah masks.

Also, the Disallowed Masks List would also have to include the known shape of the Mask of Emulation specifically for Pouks.

3324

I know giving Toa Hagah completely new Kanohi shapes is somewhat controversial, because it would introduce more Kanohi with unknown names and powers (although I would certainly prefer that over using existing masks, despite what the canon states), but what about Kanohi that we don’t know the names and powers of, but know what they look like?

We know there are 4 canon Kanohi that were never named or given powers, more specifically these:

A_Voya_Nui_Matoran's_Kanohi Southern_Continent_Matoran_Kanohi Unknown_Matoran_Kanohi

I think these would be a good compromise that would please those who don’t want to use canon masks with pre-established names and powers, and those who don’t want to introduce yet another batch of unknown Kanohi to the canon.

Of course I’m not saying that the Hagah should use these, but it’s always an option I guess (and I don’t think many people remember these unknown masks, in fact I couldn’t even find them on BS01, had to grab them from the Polish Wiki, which grabbed them from BS01 back in the day).

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3325

They can be found here.

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3326

Ah yes, the only place I haven’t checked. Of course they would be there.

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