Fair enough. This is a purely personal preference.
(Poll?)
Nah fam, individuals all the way. Weāll only get a handful of people able to actually build them in their desired way, and a lot of compromises
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I can already tell that some of my entries will be better than others, I would greatly prefer them to be judged individually. Depending on the entry, I might even want to vote for someone elseās over my own.
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My problem with the contest being held at the same time is that thereās no guarantee that the winning mocs will all line up cohesively which is what weāre trying to achieve. Everyone has their own ideas for the hagah as a whole and so the winning mocs may be random and inconsistent. Everyone has their vote so itās unlikely that weāll all unanimously agree which mocs line up best.
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So let me get this straight.
Should the hagah be required to have this shield piece, that is very prominent, and is all one piece, and Iāve yet to see a custom version that mimics its shape?
āNah, you can custom build that, it can just be redrawn anyway, and people might not have the shield piece or might not want to paint it.ā
Should people be allowed to make a custom torso that gets covered by most torso armour anyway, is only one part of the Metru build, and plenty of people have shown they can replicate?
āNo. It must use this one piece. You donāt have it? Tough.ā
Explain how this makes sense.
Because a shield is much less crucial part of a build than the torso and proportions.
And again: the debate isnāt about whether or not the Hagah have to use the Metru torso; the debate is about whether a Metru build has to use the torso. This debate should be completely independent of the contests.
If someone wants to make a Metru March entry, do they have to use the torso?
Is that what we are trying to achieve? I thought we were trying to get canon appearances for Bomonga, Kualus, Pouks, and Gaaki.
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I believe the logic is that the hagah shields are rare pieces and only come in two colors, while the metru gearbox is more common. If memory serves correctly, the Toa Hagah were exclusive sets. The Toa Metru were the main wave in 2004 and thus easier to come by.
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And yet the debate keeps happening in the context of these contests and whether or not we should mandate that the Hagah require Metru Torsos or not. The debate has been entirely about whether or not this particular contest should require a so-called Metru Build, and whether or not that Metru Build must require the use of a specific Torso piece, with the opposition to such asking why this specific contest should dis-allow custom torsos that are aesthetically similar/as close as possible to the Metru Torso piece.
This goes out to literally everyone here. Debate whether or not the Metru Torso is required for a Metru Build till the cows come home in any other topic. If you arenāt debating it in the context of the Canon Contests and specifically the Hagah Contests I donāt want to see it here.
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I get the argument here, but isnāt that like saying āIf we also have a Voice Acting canon contest, that will allow another group to participate? Why not also do an animation canon contest?ā
@AlexanderTGās point is that for the Toa Hagah specifically there is very little to be gained by creating the ānon-canon reference MoCsā as we pretty much already have those - Norik and Iruini. Itās not like Artakha where thereās no reference.
Iām not actually going to disagree there. At the very least, I wish they were a bit further down the line - Iām more excited to see characters like Lariska and Tuyet, or the TYQ Toa.
Yes, please. Iād much rather see things handeled like this, and Iād be more open to creatively liberating rules regarding the actual build if I knew I was voting for a team, rather than a single character who might look oddball among the others.
What if someone submitted an ultra-cool Bomonga that everyone loves and gets a bunch of votes, but the other three Hagah donāt get unique builds with the same kind of love so super purist builds win out? Nothing wrong with either on their own, but now Bomonga is going to completely stand out and it would be a disaster.
Doing the Hagah as a group contest rather than individual ones would completely nullify pretty much all my other concerns about this contest. If the argument is that itās restricting to mandate that people build four characters, you could argue itās equally restricting to demand that they build a āten-foot tallā character like we needed to for Artakha. Itās a bit ridiculous to say that a contest where you need to submit four roughly canister-sized characters is somehow elitist or restrictive.
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by @Dag
Obviously, no gear function (I think), and shaped noticeably different. Would have metallic armor on the torso if it were given to a hagah, though, which might help.
By Aarti studios (posted by Ghid)
The limbs certainly stretch a mettur build, but letās ignore that for now and just look at the torso. At first glance, I thought it was just a Metru torso, and didnāt realize it wasnāt until I took a closer look. Iām a bit iffy on the skirt, and canāt really see the build underneath, but this could easily pass for a mettur torso. (bonus points if it has a function)
By me.
So, obviously, the shoulders are folded back; this was necessary for the function. It also means that the arms swing at a different angle, which I think is cool, but your mileage may vary. And it can stand next to Norik and Iruini, and at least pass as a similar build ā similar enough that, say, maybe she had a different build originally, and modified it to be more metru-like?
These are the only examples I can find in this topic, but I think they go to illustrate that a custom torso that fits the proportions, and in some cases even the shaping, is certainly possible. Two of these mocs could be built just as well with a metru Torso, if someone really wants to do that (Iām not sure about the second one, it looks like the shoulders may attach differently. But again, weāre mainly talking about the torso here)
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These polls will be disregarded. Just gonna make that clear.
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Oh yeah I want to make it clear I am not proposing these as final by any means, just a way to guage the discussion at this point.
Then ask or read. The polls are unnecessary and spread attention and clarity thin.
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Ok, so, since thereās been official staff interaction to a noticeable degree, Iām going to do three things.
- Repost the definition I wrote for a Metru build:
A Metru Build is a Bionicle model which both utilizes the Metru torso piece/mimics its torso construction identical to that of the piece, and also confines itself within the proportions and general scale of the officially-released Metru-style sets, those being the Toa Metru, and the Toa Hagah Norik and Iruini.
- A description of what is Not a Metru build in connection with the contest:
An entry that does not qualify fails to: Mimic the torso construction, match the proportions of a Metru build, fails to meet the aesthetic, appearance, or construction of the existing Metru build sets, and/or does not fall within the contest organizerās definition of a Toa Hagah.
- Remind everyone that you can have your cake and eat it, too - if custom built torsos are allowed, you can still very much blow everyone away with your Metru torso piece and chances are youāll beat out the five people with custom torsos regardless of the outcome of the rules.
And with that, Iāve spent way too much time debating this topic. Quote me if you want a response, but otherwise Iām gonna dip for now.
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Despite how subjective this is, this is by far the most important part of a Metru Build to me.
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So like
If you build a Metru build with transparent CCBS limbs and armour, I would argue that is not the aesthetic of the Hagah
If, however, you were to use Knightās Kingdom armour, then Iād say that possibly qualifies as Hagah aesthetic. Remember, they have to look like they are trying to belong.
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If we skip the MOC contest and do the art portion as a group shot we donāt need to have elaborate scientific measurements on what is a Metru build.
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Not necessarily true depending on the art styles people use
Along with @Takutanuvaās point, Iām sure there are also many people that have already put a lot of work into their own entries, and it would be somewhat rude to disregard that by throwing away the MOC contest as a whole.
edit: that said, it has been stated multiple times by Eljay and co. that nothing has been decided on, including a MOC contest as a whole; so you could argue that the entrants should have waited until the official announcement and are being too hasty by making their entries so far ahead of time.
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And probably some people have already ordered parts. (EDIT: of course as you said, the competition technically hasnāt been announced yet)
Besides, this is Bionicle/Lego we are talking about. It would seem silly to have a competition to design a Lego character without building any sets.
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