Let me reiterate: the time on the stage for every muh canon argument has been had, and had, and had… And had and had and had. It’s been done quite literally to death and it will keep being done, with no consideration to the amount of people affected or offended by the unceasing repetition.
I think it’s only fair that I’m allowed to have fun with my one vote at the expense of the people who will continue to talk no matter what, and who will win no matter what. Call it overly provocative and vengeful if you like (more ad hominem) but your retort isn’t justified in my opinion when you’ve been solidly on the other side of the fence the entire time.
I’ll also call it a red herring, because it is. ‘Boy you suck at PR’ is a horrible argument against ‘I’m going to vote in a way that will guarantee people are irritated’. This conversation is also really dangerous here in particular, as you’ve been equally unflattering in this topic, but I’m not biting the bait past this point. You’re welcome to your opinion and me to mine.
I mean, I’m hardly one to talk since I decided to root for gold Gaaki/Kualus because I think the hatred of gold Gaaki/Kualus is ridiculously overblown.
(and also because I think Metru blue and Flat Dark Gold looks good, and white/silver is boring)
but even your own argument doesn’t add up
You say that, but you also said this
So you want to vote for things people think BREAK cohesion
also, these
I get if you’re being hyperbolic, but no one’s complaining about canonicity. They want the Hagah to look good as a team, not just look good. Because that’s the whole point of the contests – to get canonical designs that look the best. If the Hagah look bad as a team, that’s just as bad as an ugly individual Hagah, or Helryx, or any other.
Ironically, your argument does apply perfectly to Gold Gaaki/Kualus, because people argue that Toa shouldn’t look like another element despite the tons of canonical examples of it. If you don’t want Gold Gaaki because you don’t like it, that’s fine, but saying it defies canon is wrong when Hafu and Taipu have existed since 2001.
I can’t blame you, it really looks like doubletalk there. But what I view as team cohesion and what others view as team cohesion don’t always line up. Others may only allow non-custom limbs, specific armor color grouping, proportions, figure, and et cetera. My perception of team cohesion is far more based on overall visual design and aesthetic rather than individual pieces used, and entries that do the most within those parameters will easily net my vote.
I am 100% for working to the absolute limit and being an creative as possible. But it does have to look like they’re on the same team.
And you’re not wrong here - I was being at least a little hyperbolic. But I don’t think I agree with your statement about nobody complaining about canonicity if there are people talking about only using limbs produced in that year or years prior and metallic blue Kualus/gold Ga-
Yeah, that. At that point ythe argument becomes so absurd that it’s asking people to make a slew of metallic blue Kualus MOCs, which is exactly what occurred.
Demanding the armor be in precise and equal quantities gave us blue Kualus, demanding Metru proportions and only Metru proportions gave us at least one Bomonga with an extended neck(and a whole bunch of hunchbacks/Pohatu torso Pouks), and discussing the idea that using pieces released later than 2005 wouldn’t be truly canon gave us Ghid voting against the rest of the crowd and seriously upsetting the applecarts of some very vocal participants.
I… haven’t seen anyone make that argument, or even dislike post-05 pieces. I’ve seen a few people say “I made my entry using only pre-05 pieces”, but I’ve yet to see anyone say “I intend to vote for entries that only use pre-05 parts.”
If someone has said that… well, it’s possible I missed it or forgot about it. But I still think my point stands, because very few people have that mindset, which doesn’t really line up with your “everyone is arguing about it.”
Just so I’m clear, I’m not saying that teveryone ISN’T arguing about little details like that. Just that I don’t think that’s a good example. Your point still stands.
An interesting point, and I think I can see where you’re coming from…
I don’t think hunched Bomonga breaks cohesion (although if I’m thinking about the same entry you are, there’s a lot about that entry that does). I don’t think Pohatu-ouks breaks cohesion either… but I’m definitely not voting for it because I think A) it looks dumb (there’s only one entry I saw pull it off decently), and B) it doesn’t make sense function-wise for the legs to splay out at an angle like that.
This^^ and also at most I have seen people and I have argued that mocs should use mostly/mainly G1 parts or build in a similar style to the sets/previous contest models. However I haven’t seen anyone wanting to limit the use to only 99-05 parts.
But it’s a byproduct of people making consistent arguments over stuff that doesn’t matter to canon, and the pushback is coming from the entries themselves.
It has been quite a while since that argument was reiterated, so I’ll concede the point.
Requiring a Metru torso, and the canonicity thereof, was only a problem insofar as “did Greg say they have the same build,” and he did, so the discussion should’ve ended there. For some reason, the torso debate went on for pages and pages and pages and pages and p a g e s .
There was no problem beyond the unchangeable nature of canon (what are the odds that we could really get Greg to go back on his word like that, and what’s the point of canon if we can just hold Greg at gunpoint to change it whenever we want?), and yet there was a load of discussion over nothing.
You realize you’re paraphrasing an advocation for ethnocide, right?
No one debated the canonicity of it.
maybe they did in the very early discussion, but as soon as someone brought up the quote where Greg specifically said they were Metru build, that discussion ENDED.
I’m surprised one of the most vocal people in that discussion can so badly misrepresent what the discussion was about. It was NEVER about the canonicity of a Mettur build. It was about what IS a Metru build, and what should COUNT as a Metru build.
Only a handful of people ever proposed getting Greg to change canon (and were pretty handily shot down by everyone else). The rest recognized that Metru build is canon. The problem is what a “Metru build” is, something no one agreed on. Heck, even with the restrictions in place, there’s at least one entry here I would say is handily not a Metru build according to the current definition, because the Metru Torso piece is a glorified backpack, but it got accepted – so even with the rules in place as exact as possible, what constitutes a “Metru build” is still debatable.
I didn’t say it was. The matter of its canonicity, and the relevant mandate, was what I was talking about. The discussion was what a Metru build was, which should’ve been self-evident and ultimately got dragged out for no reason because, as has been explained, there is no benefit to making a custom torso in this context. At best, you just end up with a greebled brick with no room for a gearbox and the same shape as a prefab torso. There was no real problem here, and yet one was contrived.
I wasn’t referring to them, more to the fact that we can’t get Greg to change canon and we’re stuck with his word.
I genuinely don’t know which entry you’re talking about.
I think that’s @Gilahu’s perspective, but I haven’t seen anyone else make that argument, no. And not to disparage Gil either. The essence of his argument in this instance and in most others is the same as mine. I’d much rather have a design that looks like what Lego would have made in the era that that character belongs to.
Agreed here too. I’m more concerned about armour and colour than anything. The reason I’d lean away from Pohatu-ouks entries is because most of them are forced to use a semi-illegal arm mod (the same mod that a lot of other MOCs use).
I honestly doubt that. I’ve read nearly every contest entry’s write-up and I don’t recall any instances of people (at least explicitly) stating they’re trying to provoke the vocal minority. And even if they did, it’d probably be a positive from the perspective of creative expression.
I feel like this is the problem we keep running into. You say something ambiguous to be funny and half of us think you’re being serious. No wonder our debates get so heated.
I understand your perspective a bit better from this. But honestly, I don’t think the vocal minority will ‘win’ in this instance. I think most people will fall somewhere in between the two vocal camps here, and we’ll end up with Hagah that look serviceable together and at least agreeable to most. I anticipate being disappointed no matter the outcome, but I’m part of the aforementioned vocal minority, so that’s pretty much a given.
DM me with evidence of this, because I’d be more than willing to apologise if this was the case. From my perspective, I feel like any time things have gotten heated was because of some misinterpretation on my part or others’.
Yes. This is a greebIy brick with no room for a function, and there’s nothing it does that the Metru torso can’t.
okay but to be honest… when you put it that way, your point works much better. l don’t think it’s fair to say
but l think it is fair to say
because there are reasons to buiId custom, but most of the time the easiest and best way to make something that Iooks good next to N&I (which is the crux of many of my other points, so l’d be a hypocrite if l said otherwise) is to use the same torso they use.
Wait did you just almost convince me to agree with you in the Metru buiId debate? How dare you!
/s though to be wholly honest I still disagree and feel something like my buiId should be considered a Metru build, but I know you disagree, so we should continue to agree to disagree on that matter.
l didn’t originaIIy post it because I don’t want to seem like l’m calling out the person. Rather, I’m just using it as an example of how, even with your definition of a Metru build, the line can be a bit blurry.
Guys, if you’re going to argue that conversations get dragged out on and on and on and on (which they do, don’t get me wrong), then don’t get into conversations that drag out on and on and on and on.
No, I’m serious. We’re talking about whether the Metru build debate was justified and whether it is comparable to Ghid’s complaints. The closest thing to discussing the Metru build is whether a new entry should count.
So it has a function, but it doesn’t look a thing like a Metru torso. 'Bout the right height, but that’s it. Not that it matters now, the rules being in place, and you seem to get my point, so no point in leading a dead horse to water.
I get where you’re coming from on this one (I hadn’t seen it before) but it’s ultimately at the admins’ discretion whether or not it counts. In the interest of letting people be as creative as possible within the confines of having to use a specific build, I don’t think this one really does any harm.
