Just like how a blue Tahu isn’t canon-compatible. Or a four-legged Tahu. Or a Pohatu-torso Tahu.
“They got new armour” is just as unsatisfying of an explanation (and just as non-canon).
Well, just hit the character name into Google, look over all relevant entries that come up and pick your favorite. Nobody could tell you you’re wrong if there’s no canon.
And if you’re not satisfied with what you find, build something yourself, discuss it with others, or maybe inspire others to build/draw something. Or even comission others, if you’re desperate.
Currently, you decide what Lariska/Marendar/Tuyet etc. look like. Why would you want and need to give that up?
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What do you mean by “interest”? Simply as participation in the contests? If you’re distinguishing enjoyment and interest, then let me rephrase:
I am both interested in and enjoy the story of BIONICLE and its canon. While I do not enjoy the contests, I, by default, have to at least be interested because they directly affect what I do enjoy.
Using interest/activity to gauge whether to continue the contests is still an assumption. The only way to know for sure is, again, a poll, and I wish it would be moved up sooner than until after Lariska.
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So then why follow canon at all?
Because none of those are official. If I wanted to create my own universe and characters, I could do that without Bionicle.
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“People have shown up to the scene of this burning building. People must really like houses being on fire.”
I’m arguing about technicalities here. I think the odds are that a majority (whether that’s 50.1% or 99%) of people who engage with the contests are either indifferent towards them or are enjoying them. But that doesn’t make it a fact.
Dag, as he has said, is literal proof this is not always the case. Maybe it’s the case 90% of the time, but if it’s not 100% it is an assumption.
Well, maybe he’s the exception that proves the rule.
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Maybe I need to append something to my Takua and Kapura thought experiment (go read that, by the way):
We were all kids when canon decided what a Toa looked like. Very very few of us were making our own Toa characters that conflicted with canon, and even fewer cared if they didn’t align with canon.
Then G1 ended, we grew up, started to express ourselves with our own headcanons, and then ten years later the contests arrived.
That’s when the issue of headcanons emerges. Canon was set and we had both the framework and the freedom to expand on it. Now canon is changing, something we didn’t expect, and our own personal canons are being challenged.
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So, just so I understand this correctly - this sounds like you do not mind whatever a character looks like as long as it has Greg’s approval stamp on it?
Because Greg can judge visual depictions super well.
The beauty of delving deeper into any fictional setting comes from taking what is there and expanding on it yourself, in my eyes. Otherwise you’re just reciting stuff on repeat - for what? What does that offer you compared to the power to shape things as you want them? What is your intention for canon? What do you want to use it for?
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“A feeling that accompanies or causes special attention to something or someone” is my go-to definition here. I assume most of those who are interested are also in favor of the contests, but that’s entirely my opinion. The amount of interest - going by that definition and using disinterest as the antithesis - is unquestionably increasing as the contests progress.
And there are still people who hate the contests and their outcome and also don’t have any interest in participating, and also people who greatly appreciate the contests but don’t have any interest to participate. So one definitely doesn’t equal the other, but I assume the majority of the people who are signing up for the site to vote aren’t doing so out of protest.
Also he literally just clarified he’s interested even though he’s heavily opposed so I’m not sure what Hazash’s point is.
EDIT: Alright, I’m covering this one point because it begs to be countered, but that’s it.
False analogy again. You’re failing to take into account the people who show up are also voting in the contest for a winner. This isn’t a crowd who watches, it’s a crowd which is actively participating in the event.
Why? Reasons differ from person to person, but the Interest is there - if they weren’t interested, i.e. if they didn’t care, they wouldn’t be here.
I can’t fully relate to the headcanon argument as its not the reason I’m having issues with the contest.
I have an issue with that the already determined astehtic and cohesion of the canon is being threaten by the notion that public voting is always a factor than can cause problems for retaining that cohesion and aesthetic.
Headcanons are gonna be squandered either way the least we can make sure mocs that disrupt this cohesion doesn’t win.
The headcanon argument is a losing battle as long as a motion for cancelling them has not been set in motion. You can still argue for it but don’t expect to get anywhere unless Eljay or Meso directly engage in the conversation
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Completely true. I’m just frustrated that people don’t understand the argument. Not because I think people are being deliberately obtuse, but because it’s one of those things that only applies to a certain type of fan and is difficult to explain to an outsider.
Again, for anyone who wants to understand the headcanon argument (not why it means the contests should end, but just so you can see things from a different perspective), read my post:
You do not. You don’t have to be canon-compliant with your MOCs. If Lariska has antlers, and you want a Lariska without antlers, all you have to do is say “I wanted to make Lariska without antlers.” If you want to make Tahu a 90s punk frontman (which has been done!) you just have to say “I wanted to put Tahu in leather and give him mohawk.”
Canon is a springboard to jump off of, not a ruleset, and a lot of us actively go against it in preference of what we like. I’ve seen Nidhiki’s Toa form restored as a bug man, and it was ■■■■ cool. There was nothing wrong with it. It just wasn’t canon, and that’s OK. Canon-compliancy doesn’t really matter when Lego itself is based around making your own rules.
Demonstrably false. It gives me closure on gaps in canon that bugged me as a kid, even if I’m not personally a fan of the winning designs. And now we’ll see revamps of those designs where people take their core elements and make something better, and that excites me. There’s something to make revamps of now, not just something that you have to disclose as “oh this is Helryx” beforehand.
Here’s the issue with this analogy: Kapura was living a lie before the big reveal that Mata Nui was a robot. He would have lived in ignorance of some pretty important information. Takua, meanwhile, now knows he’s correct and can make predictions and perform experiments based on what he now knows, and everyone else in the world can be on the same page and work towards the same goals because they now share the same knowledge.
I do not believe in God, but if he does exist, I kinda wanna know about it. It would shock me, maybe even cause an existential crisis, but that’s important information.
There aren’t even clear answers on where one species starts and another ends, or how many species are in the MU. We don’t even know if Sidorak and Krekka are the norm for their species, or if they’re horribly deformed/modified/mutated. Lots of different species look alike. This isn’t really a problem.
Canon does not stop this.
Revamps are fun. You can’t make a revamp of nothing. I like it when people take something I’ve already seen and put an original spin on it; you can’t do that if the only Helryx or Lariska or Artakha I’ve seen is the one in my head.
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I don’t really agree that you should have this mindset in regards to the canon contest if that is not what you are arguing then ignore this.
As a mindset for making your own headcanons I can understand your reasoning and agree with your sentiment. You can make an toa metru 80s rock Krahka moc like this one:
But maybe don’t enter it into a canon contest as a serious entry.
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So you’re saying that headcanons being wrong is only a problem because canon hasn’t changed in 10 years? I suppose that makes sense.
But then, if headcanons are suddenly more sacred since it’s been ten years since any new content, haven’t the headcanon-havers already relaxed their dedication to following canon? Why do they care if there’s new content?
This just brings us to a slightly modified version of my issue with this argument: If someone’s moved on from the official canon and started creating their own version, then why do they care if the original comes back? Or, if they care enough about the original canon after ten years that they feel the need to follow it exactly, why would they still hold on to their own opinion-based version?
Yes.
I like the story.
Plus, I’m sure that we can all agree that the most basic concept behind Bionicle is awesome: Biomechanical warriors with Elemental powers fighting other biomechanical warriors. That would be awesome to watch and/or visualize, but visualization is a little tricky when you don’t know what the characters look like.
This post just made me even more excited for these contests than I already was.
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I know Gilahu personally. He does. He cares about being compliant with canon. For me and him, that’s the whole reason we make MOCs.
Saying “I want to do x” doesn’t make something canon-compliant. You have to abide by the rules that canon sets if that’s the ballpark you’re playing in (which Gilahu and I are).
It’s both.
I agree with you here.
The Matoran lived a prosperous life without that information. The analogy still applies here.
For the purposes of what this was analogising, I also agree with you. I just come down on the side of preferring to not have that information and being freer to pursue my own interpretation.
Canon stops one channel of this and opens up another. Whether it’s a net benefit or not comes down to personal perspective.
On the whole I think you’re raising very good points. But you’re completely dismissing the other side of the argument.
Yes, but then it’s not canon-compliant, which is the whole point.
Anyone who does this with their MOCs on a normal basis is - and I’ll be frank here - not the target group of these contests and has no business with them.
This is admittedly a somewhat reasonable argument, but I still see it as inferior to complete freedom not tied to a canon design. With the exception of Marendar, we know enough about every contest character to make them recognizible without a canon design. There are more than likely several really good MOCs for every contest character to be found somewhere, and regardless of whether the contests define a canon design or not, there’d be more in the future.
The only thing the canon contest obviously contribute is a wave of new MOCs to choose from. But you could get that from a canon-compliant contest as well. Which I’d even be a fan of.
I just disagree with being dictated canon I don’t like as someone who’s working a lot on expanding canon with canon compliant headcanon.
You’re really going to insult all the people who moc for fun more than making every single moc or creation exactly perfect with the Bionicle canon and never having any deviation whatsoever? All the inventive builders who enter the contests to flex their building prowess and provide the best possible model - you’re going to tell them they don’t belong?
You’re really going to do that?
Really?
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Exactly.
To be technical, they were never not following canon. The gist of the argument is that (I assume) many people who have headcanons treat them almost as sacred as the true canon. They’re still following canon, but with a cherry on top.
And people don’t like their cherries being stolen.
I have another analogy: what would you think if Bethesda canonised the Dragonborn as being a Nord, when you built a whole backstory for your Argonian Dragonborn? Bethesda deliberately doesn’t canonise the race or gender of the protagonists in Elder Scrolls games precisely because of that.
maybe the worst thing that comes out of these contests is all the arguing
This is a joke, I do not mean to insult anyone.
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no this is true
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