Barbed broadsword should be mandated. Based on this quote , it seems to be Tuyet’s signature toa tool
Nui stone should be optional. It’s associated with Tuyet, but it’s a powerful artifact that probably had a different role eons before Tuyet claimed it.
Shards should be prohibited. It’s not her default look.
Regarding the allowance of Helryx and Gaaki mocs, I pretty much agree with everything Willess, JMSOG, and Eljay said.
No entry should be disqualified on account of being “uncreative” or “lazy.” That’s a very subjective thing, and would be unfair.
Okay, everyone no hoses for this toa of water, we can all agree to that right?/s
However I think a good compromise for the recycling mocs suggestion is to let people reuse concepts or parts from older mocs but not neccesarily the entire thing.
About Tuyet mask, MOC entries will define if they allow their mask to be changed (like Toa Hagah) or will it be a placeholder (like Helryx / Artakha)?
I understand that option for the Hagah, because they could have use an existing Lego piece, so in theory an entry using a Hau had the same chance of winning than an entry using a 3D printed mask.
But for Tuyet, we will end up with a new 3D printed design, so it should be just a placeholder in the MOC, so no unfair advantage is given to an entry just because it has access to a 3D printer. I’m sure if the winner ask to not change the mask, many artist will respect that wish, but the mask should be defined in the art portion, not the MOC.
I’d like more thoughts on this before we say one way or the other. The system worked pretty well from what we could see, but it was only super necessary because of the particular nature of the Toa Hagah.
Personally, I think doing it the old way is fine, seeing as the compromise was always Mask in the art and everything else to the MOC. It keeps everything even and helps set expectations. That said, completely open to hearing arguments for/against.
I would have to think that the way that Helryx and Arthaka were done would be perfectly fine for Tuyet. so long as the canon representation can only be the art, then this still works great.
As an edge-case suggestion though:
The one modification that I could possible think of, in reference to the way the Hagah was done: if someone makes a 3D printed mask (as in, they made it, and they didn’t borrow it from a different 3D artist who had previously given permission), and they also provide the 3D model download immediatly completely free of charge, THEN I could imagine a hagah-style permission system being in place. Maybe also for the weapon piece, but also maybe not.
Would like to note that the modification would affect, if I were to be generous, less than 10 people. Probably less than 5. But it could be to see what MOCs get made when they have the power to sculpt a mask alongside it. It’s the only possible change I could think of that might be worth considering.
Yeah, the Helryx-Artakha solution worked perfectly before,* and it set a precedent that characters with known mask power but unknown shape should be decided that way (as opposed to the Hagah, who set the precedent that purely unknown shape should be decided the Hagah way).
*Contingent, of course, on whether you liked Helryx and Artakha’s final mask designs. Personally, I’m a big fan of both.
Ok here is my definitive feedback and arguments for @Eljay’s questions.
1) Barbed Broadsword - it should definitelly be included. There is exactly zero evidence against prime Tuyet weilding it, and all the evidence for it. Greg specifically said he would reveal Tuyet’s tool in the upcomming serial (and he did).
Also, the alternate versions of characters always have the same masks and tools as their prime universe counterparts, unless there is a very specific reason for otherwise (such as the Melding AU, etc.). Not only are the tools shared between universes by default, but there are in fact other toa tools which have only explicitly appeared in alternate universes, such as recently canonized Seismic spear and Sub-zero spear. The point about the Barbed Broadsword only appearing in AU is therefore utterly non-applicable as a counter argument.
Since we want our characters to be fully equiped with their standard gear, its inclussion should be mandated at least at some stage of the contest.
2) Nui Stone - this object’s inclusion is also necessary at some point during the contest. Here are the reasons.
Nui Stone is in fact a standard equipment for Tuyet and it is no exaggeration to say it is her primary signature weapon. She has had it pretty much her entire life as a Toa - for an undisclosed period of time on her home island and then ever since she moved to Metru Nui the Nui Stone was still in her possession (and in use).
Even after her exile, she has been using it for tousands of years to drain other Toa of their Toa Power and by her own admission considered it her personal superweapon. In other universes as a direct consequence of her usage identical to that in prime reality, she became widely known as “The wielder of the Nui Stone”. It is an integral part of not only her arsenal, but her entire character - at one point it was LITERALLY a part of her being.
It is for these reasons Tuyet should have her Nui Stone with her in the intact form (since she spent the most time with that form). It is even more important than the Barbed Broadsword. Even if only in the artwork, but it has to be there. There is no Tuyet without Nui Stone.
3)Re-using Helryx entries for Tuyet - yes of course. This was already allowed during the Helryx contest and as other have pointed out is even in the rules.
4) The build - there is none reason to mandate any kind of build and should be left for creativity of entrants. If anything, entrants should be encouraged (though again not mandated) to make Tuyet visually distict from Lhikan.
Toa Mangai are not originally fro the same team. They came together from all corners of the universe to finght of a threat and only stuck together afetr the fact. Even more relevant to this particular contest, we know Tuyet explicitly came from adifferent homeland than Lhikan, so there is no reason for any parity between the at all.
Since he specified “distinct from lhikan” though the greg quote you provided leans more towards what I said:
though its not confirmed it should probably be something along this in my opinion if it is ever going to be a guideline/rule:
there is no reason to mandate any kind of build and should be left for creativity of entrants. If anything, entrants should be encouraged (though again not mandated) to make Tuyet visually similar too Lhikan.
It definitely applies to Tuyet, since she was a Toa Mangai.
However, that doesn’t really matter, since you’re certainly right about it not being definitive. “Looked like” is pretty subjective. The only way that I could see a rule like that being enforceable would be to mandate that every part of her armour be identical to Lhikan’s, which is obviously ridiculous.
Beyond that, there’s really no way to determine what armour designs “look like” each other.
And even after all that, the quote only says that it’s “reasonable” to “assume” that they looked like each other. That on its own introduces a ton of ambiguity, regardless of how definitive “looked like” is interpreted to be.
Just want to let you know that what was being argued is over me simply commenting on his use of “Distinct” the suggestion he made could still be in place but the wording should probably be similar too rather than distinct from.
EDIT: it sounds odd to say the armor doesn’t have to look different from lhikan but it should definately be engouraged that it looks different. That’s why I got hung up on the wording.
EDIT2: But I dunno I feel like people are getting hung up on something so insignficant that I said anyway so how about we drop it. Sounds fair?
You know, I wonder if maletoaofwater, the person who asked greg that question about the mangai’s builds on a whim, knew that it would lead a bunch of adults debating exactly what it meant a whole 7 years later.
I don’t mean that disparagingly at all, it’s just wild that what was effectively a random post on a lego messageboard would have this significant and long-term of an impact.
Just wanted to weigh in on the Nui stone. I think it should be banned from the MOC portion.
If it’s mandated then it’ll likely end up being an afterthought for a lot of people and quite frankly there’s just not that much wiggle room to work with making a red stone out of Lego. You’ll likely just see the same three crystal molds over and over again and it’ll get pretty annoying fast imo. Not to mention the posing limitations it puts on the entry photo. There’s only so many ways you can pose someone holding a sword and a crystal if that makes sense? I feel like it could become very visually repetitive.
If it’s not mandated, but just suggested, then we’ll end up with people voting for entries because they do or do not include it. Which would be a horrible situation. How many good entries could lose out just because they did or did not include a red stone?
Just make it a placeholder like the mask and the Hagah shields. Moccists are free to include it or not, but whatever they make won’t have any bearing on the art.