Let’s say you’re trying to build Toa Metru Vakama. You have every piece included in the official set, except for the mask. Now, you can model your own, or commision a 3d modeller to make one for you, but it won’t be the official piece, even if it’s virtually identical.
But let’s say you’re trying to make a Baterra. There is no lego model for the batterra*, so there’s no way to buy a Batera helmet off of lego. You have to buy it from a 3d moddeler, or make your own, and it’s no less “official” if you buy one from Bobthe3dguy than it is if you buy it from Masksmasksmasksman**
If the winning Artakha moc was canonized as it was, then the official piece used for the mask is the piece modelled by Khingk. If you buy a similar mask from Bobthe3dguy, then it’s similar to buying a 3d huna from him/her***: it might be identical, but it isn’t the official piece. But with the art being canon, not the moc, there is no “official” piece, and a model from KhingK to match the art is just as valid as a model from Bobthe3dguy.
Sure, this is all technical. If you don’t mind whether something is official and want to 3d print your own Huna, no one’s stopping you. But they do matter to much of the community, enough for the current system to exist.
*I could look up how to spell this, but spelling it differently each time is more fun
**Yes, both of these names are made up
***Just because their username has ‘guy’ doesn’t mean it is a guy
Wait, this is an interesting point, actually. How were Prime Kualus’ and Bomonga’s weapons canonized as having those names if they were only named in this serial? Was it a Greg quote or something?
Like, if this was good enough evidence for Kualus and Bomonga, why doesn’t it work for Tuyet?
Edit: btw this isn’t like a gotcha to force in the BB, I’m genuinely curious as to how this happened.
I think we have enough evidence now to make a solid argument for the BB to be canon, as not making her use the BB now makes us ask what else (in the quote) would she use in a fight that’s also a sword? I’m also curious how we decided that the DM Hagah spear names were canon.
but the piece is still official in terms of canon and does not affect the following:
Which is why this will be an issue:
Not everyone has a printer, nor am I arguing the banning of 3d masks, I’m just highlighting an issue with the current system.
Let’s say you want to introduce a new shape for the mask in the art portion but don’t know how to 3d model a mask. Then don’t worry as long as the creator have given a go ahead on being allowed to change the mask they can still do that. However a free model from however 3d models the mask should be provided publicly, if anything do it as a collab between artist and modeller for all I care. Otherwise the rule to provide a 3d model for the mask in the moc portion is pointless. Since the art portion has proven that the rule from the moc portion is irrelevant since it will likely just be changed to a new shape in the art anyway,
Which leads me to my main argument:
Because having an moccist decide if his mask can be changed or not. A. makes the rule implemented relevant again, B. Moccist won’t be royally screwed during the yesterday quest toa if they want to use official lego masks in their builds by the art session. Not that I think we’ll ever see another toa using a determined shape again. From this thread and other community hubs the lego masks seems to be unanimously disliked anyway.. C. A majority still don’t have or can’t drop money on a 3d printer meaning people can still largely profit from the contests by selling 3d printed masks of whatever masks undoubtfully will wins. Which works against the rule of providing a file anyway. Which then the consent rule can counteract.
That’s my point for MOC mask to be only a placeholder. Tuyet has a new mask shape, so if a MOC had “the best Tuyet mask”, it would have an unfair advantage over all the other MOCist that couldn’t afford a 3D printed mask.
I understand your point about accesability of the model after the contest, and I agree that these contest shouldn’t give the monopoly for a character to a modeler, but I trust that the community will make a free model. Besides, in the art portion could end up winning an entry with an alredy free 3D model mask.
I just wanted to point out that I believe these quotes are being taken out of context. The first quote is from July 2007; he’s not talking about Dark Mirror, he’s talking about Into the Darkness. I seriously doubt he was planning Dark Mirror back then seeing as he was sure Brutaka wouldn’t be appearing in Into the Darkness as late as April 2007. Brutaka appeared in the podcast only 6 months later.
Further confirmation that he was specifically referring to Into the Darkness:
1)You had once said that we would learn of Tuyet’s tool in Into the Darkness , but so far, we heard nothing. Will this info on her tool come out in a later chapter, or was the part that mentioned her tool cut? At this point, it seems unlikely it will make it in, but you never know.
So he said it would be revealed and then it didn’t end up happening. To address the second quote you posted:
When will we find out Tuyet’s Toa tool? 14) When she shows up in story.
This seems like a generic “wait and see” type answer, not a promise of more information to come. So I don’t really think either of these Greg quotes actually have merit here.
To be clear, I believe it was Greg’s intention that the broadsword would be her weapon, I just don’t think these quotes support it and I’m a bit tired of seeing people reference them as indisputable proof.
The “best Tuyet mask” is very subjective though. If a Tuyet moc has a mask I dislike and doesn’t consent to change it, I’d rather vote for one with a placeholder.
I will grant that the first quote is most likely referring to Into the Darkness; I only included it to show that he planned to reveal her weapon. However, it’s good that you bring up the context, because I’ve been trying to figure our when in relation to the story the second quote was posted, and finally did so:
This second quote was given shortly after Chapter 2 of Dark Mirror had just came out, where Tuyet was being set up as the big bad. It was definitely a promise of information to come, information he’d initially planned to reveal in ItD, and finally did reveal in DM.
I do not think this would be a good idea.
We have no reason to believe DM Tuyet looks any different than prime Tuyet.
From the very inception of this contest people are expecting the prime reality versions of these characters to gain canonized appearance, so a result canonizing an alternate version of a character would create unnecessary ambiguity (which we are trying to avoid).
Also, the fact that this structure includes “intended to be both” as an option would self-defeat the purpose in the first place.
Just keep the contest for prime Tuyet as originally intended with no alterations to the formula.
…
Also regarding the BB, soon I will make a picture/diagram of scales to graphically show how overwhelming the evidence for the prime Tuyet BB is. Like I said many times before, there is evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that prime Tuyet DOES wield Barbed Broadsword.
The opposite statement “prime Tuyet does not wield Barbed Broadsword” has no evidence in favor of it.
I already presented this about a month (or 2?) ago, but not to worry… it will be included in the scale diagram.
I’ll admit with the timing it makes it more likely he was promising info, I should’ve looked into that. I still don’t believe it’s as clear as you’re making it out to be, but I doubt we can convince each other.
I’ll do this right now in text form, let me know if I’ve missed anything. Will try to be unbiased.
That’s why it’s in quotes, because is subjective. What I mean with “best Tuyet mask” is a mask that most people or a large amount of people feel fitting for the character. Obviously some people won’t like the design, but the entry with most votes wins, not the one with all the votes.
Even if Greg forgot whether she had a weapon(he’s done it before), his reference to a slashing attack proves that he intended for her to be wielding her sword.
No, it’s built so that it does more damage specifically when stabbing. It’s a sword. It’s literally a slashing weapon.
Also, one thing that this counterpoint ignores is that Greg doesn’t write like this. If he intended Prime Tuyet to have a different weapon, he would have decided that if and when it came up in the story. If he hadn’t decided her weapon, he wouldn’t have given her a “slashing attack”; he would’ve written something more generic, or something to do with Tuyet’s element.
He wrote a slashing attack because he’d given her a Barbed Broadsword.
For:
He revealed the names of Kualus and Bomgona’s spears in Dark Mirror as well, and answered questions about both.
He gave this weapon a name (as opposed to the oft-mentioned Protosteel axe, which is just the generic term “axe” with a pre-existing material name)
She steals Axonn’s axe instead of using a sword. Perhaps she lost it in the fight, perhaps she didn’t have it because the Order took it, or perhaps she needed something bigger to knock Miserix over.
Like Toakebaka said
Honestly, though, I feel like this
is the only evidence we should need. He said he would reveal Tuyet’s Toa tool. Then he did.
It’s essential to the argument and it’s objective so I put it in.
Lots of weapons can slash, I’d argue even water can be used to slash an opponent. In no way does this explicitly confirm a sword. I listed the evidence, it’s up to you to interpret it.
That’s how I intended that statement to be interpreted.
I’ll add the first and last, but AFAIK it’s unclear whether the weapon’s name is capitalized given DM was a podcast.
…that’s already on there. I’m not going to editorialize the points on the list.
My bad, I wasn’t intending to say you forgot it, I just decided to restate what you just said (only with more words) in lieu of quoting you like I did previously because… I forgot, I guess. and also I like to hear myself type. Apology for the confusion
I’m not referring to it being capitalized. I’m referring to it having a descriptive name: barbed broadsword, as opposed to just “sword” or “axe”.
A super pedantic tangent that doesn't really prove anything but I wanted to point it out anyway
I would still say it’s unnecessary, because it’s simply stating “there isn’t an appearance of her with the weapon” which is kinda obvious, because if there was, that would be in the “for” column.
“Helryx avoided Tuyet’s slashing attack and landed a side kick in her mid-section. The corrupt Toa of Water staggered backwards, only narrowly avoiding being accidentally struck by Brutaka. The battle had begun only moments before, but already the chamber in which they fought was a shambles.”
This seems more like a physical attack, rather than her using her element. Additionally using water against a Toa of Water probably isn’t the best idea. As for the slashing part, here’s the description of “slashing”
I’d say either it’s the Nui Shiv (joking of course) or Tuyet’s Barbed Broadsword.
Also, I wonder if Tuyet stole another Tuyet’s Barbed Broadsword while she travelled back to the Prime Universe. After all, she and the Decoy Tuyet didn’t have it since the Toa thought keeping a prisoner armed is a bad idea and the Decoy had to match that.
In the kingdom alternative universe, when Prime Takanuva says “I could use my Staff of Light back.”
and turaga Takanuva smiles and jokes “Oh, that weapon went out of style 10,000 years ago”
This implies that turaga Takanuva also used Staff of Light.
I think this is evidence that AU’s characters use same weapons such as prime characters.
The only opposing evidence is Melding Teridax, as he wields a Hammer, opposed to the Hockey stick of Shadows.
However it would make sense not to use a weapon that does this as a being of light:
“The Staff of Darkness, also called the Kolhii Staff of Shadows, is a large bladed staff formerly wielded by Teridax. The staff could be used to convert spheres of pure Light or Energized Protodermis into Shadow.”Staff of Darkness - BIONICLEsector01
