Anyone here watch Fabers youtube channel?
How do we know we are being leveraged at all, or that the interaction is negative?
That is the core of the problem: we don’t know anything. You’d think after 3 years we would know something, if there was something worth knowing. This whole argument seems to be the fan community claiming that Faber is hiding something below the surface and demanding to know what it is, when he’s just posting concept art to influence the community.
I mean, that’s all it is until we know otherwise, so that’s what it is.
This whole debate is people getting mad because they don’t know stuff. After 3 years, we still don’t know anything about what Faber’s doing, as if Faber actually owns Bionicle (he doesn’t) or we own Bionicle (we don’t) and Faber is trying to wrest intellectual ownership of it from us or something. The Bionicle community feels threatened when Lego or someone else tries to do official Bionicle wrong, so Faber’s cageyness increases the community’s ire.
We don’t know what Faber’s doing, so we view him as a possible threat to Bionicle. This is what this debate has been about. The community reacts negatively to not knowing because we see the unknown as a threat.
6 Likes
Who thinks this? Certainly no one in this topic. You have a habit of making broad and baseless claims about what the community thinks.
11 Likes
Yeah I certainly don’t view his activities as a threat to bionicle. More like something that for my own hopes is best to just not get too excited over now
3 Likes
You can’t be a threat to something that’s already dead
5 Likes
You can threaten to change that. I can certainly think of things I would’ve preferred left in the past yet were revived anyway, to their detriment.
Bionicle for one. Even someone like me, who’s as close to a Faber simp as this thread gets, is worried about the possibility of anything Faber manages to do turning out like G2, or worse.
It’s happened before, in other places and other times.
And it will happen again, countless more.
1 Like
What’s kinda sad is that Faber has been being mysterious and cryptic for over 3 years now- and we still don’t really know anything about what he’s doing. It seems to me now like we might not get anything from him. That’s not to say i was expecting anything- we Bonkle fans have been very lucky, while G2 may have been lackluster in it’s story, we got some really great sets, (Mask Maker Ekimu, Umarak the Hunter, etc) and it was a miracle from Mata Nui to get a reboot at all. If Faber isn’t reviving Bionicle in any way, i feel like he should just tell us, Instead of continuously hinting at some sort of G3.
Of course, it could be that in 6 years We’ll get Faberonicle G3 and everyone will laugh about how we criticized him
11 Likes
You misread me here.
Firstly, we’re being leveraged because he’s told us. He’s asked for support. He’s not just going “hey, look at this cool thing I made.” He’s showing us things that are meant to be developmental sneak-peeks to get us excited and interested in what he’s doing. Fairly certain back when talks with LEGO were a thing he was making statements that our support would be seen and heard by them and would help him in his endeavors. That’s leveraging.
What I wrote was that some people are reacting negatively to being leveraged, not that Faber is being negative. As in some people are upset that their emotions and nostalgia are being pandered to for what has, so far, amounted to nothing.
Which you seem to agree with:
Which results in the issue here:
Again, as I said before in defense of Ghid, no it isn’t. Nobody here thinks Faber’s hoarding some sort of content goldmine that he’s just electing to withhold from us. We’re demanding to know what he’s doing, yes, but not because we’re entitled to said imaginary content, but because clearly our emotions and nostalgia have been pandered to for 3 years for nothing.
And what I was trying to get across in my first response is that I think it’s totally within our rights to be disappointed and, yes, even a little angry at that. Have you ever been told that it’s rude to pretend to have a ball in front of a dog, and to fake throwing it? That you shouldn’t tease the dog with something you don’t have? We’re the dog here.
Bionicle fans have been so ungodly desperate for “official” content (or in Faber’s case, content from one of the original creators that’s either one-to-one or spiritually related) that we latch ourselves onto any avenue for it. The canon contests, the LEGO Ideas pitches, the 90th Anniversary. Whether or not that’s a healthy state for a community to be in is another discussion entirely, but that’s the basis of why everyone was so initially interested in whatever Faber is doing. So, yes, when you keep faking that dog out for 3 years, I imagine that dog is going to lose interest. And for us, human beings with emotional attachment to the thing we were being teased with? We react with disappointment and anger at being manipulated.
And this makes the situation even worse. It’s easy to come to it as some sort of defense for the situation. “We shouldn’t be mad because it was never his intention to give us anything, he just wants to inspire us.”
The only thing is, we’ve been doing that. For nearly thirteen years now. Other people have said it, if all Faber’s goal has been this entire time was to rally a grieving, demure little community behind him to continue the legacy through art and creation, he failed because we’ve been doing that for years without him.
So, pick your poison, really. Either Faber has been trying to hype us up for 3 years for something he’s refused to even offer an idea of what it wants to be, or he’s stepped up to “lead” and “inspire” a community who hasn’t needed his help in over a decade.
I honestly have no idea where this came from.
Our desire to want to know what he’s doing has never been because we want to make sure it’s kosher Bionicle. It’s been because if he wants to do something and wants us to support him, we should probably know what it is so we know how to support it.
I couldn’t care any less if it was G3, a fan project, a reimagining, a reboot, a continuation. I don’t even care if he decided he wanted to make toothbrushes. If you want people to be on board with your idea, you can’t just give them vague poetry statements and expect them to stay with you until the end.
8 Likes
I think Faber might be planning a Galidor reboot.
12 Likes
The solution for ending the anger seen in this topic is by touching that green grass.
6 Likes
I’m not angry. I actually believe what I am saying and my posts are being written with utmost calm.
I mean, art is art. It would take multiple days to draw some of the concept art I’ve seen and color it, which indicates some degree of investment. If Faber cut and ran right now and we never got another post from him, we got something from all of it, and the something is the art.
Now obviously, the way Faber has been talking, you’ve wanted more, but this statement is a bit extreme.
I didn’t want any more from Faber. To be honest, I wrote Faber off after the 14B livestream. His plan, on its own, was and is never going to work without significant modifications. Lego is a set company and Lego holds the Bionicle IP. If Faber wants to make a Bionicle MMORPG with his cool VR rig, that’s great. But he’s got to have some sets somewhere in the equation or it’s a doomed proposition. It’s clear at this point that Faber doesn’t think logically. He’s just emotionally reacting to things.
It is totally within your rights to have any emotional response in response to anything. But is this emotional response a useful one? If we are a dog, do we have to be a dog? More specifically, do you have to be one, since you are speaking on behalf of your emotions? Is there any way to evaluate Faber’s plans for viability or are you just a helpless victim of the evil Faber?
A victim is powerless. I’m asking you to step outside of that mindset and take the power position. Now if you want to be a victim, there’s nothing I can do about it, but I thought I would influence you in the right direction.
If you’re stuck in a situation and you’re angry about it, the anger needs to take on a constructive form for anything to change. The community has made many constructive forms to express the need for new content: the canon contests, the Ideas project, all of the fan games, the 90 years of play set, creations and art and Twitter posts when we get snubbed. You likely agree with me on this. The problem is, for all of that, Bionicle still hasn’t come back.
But this anger in this topic isn’t a constructive form - it’s just the dog biting the owner for not giving him enough treats. We need to act as human beings and move the needle here, and that’s why I suggested we move forward with building something based on Faber’s art. In order to move the needle you have to emotionally battle the guy on his own turf. If we start building our own thing, that puts pressure on Faber and his team to compete with that thing, which then shows us just how much smoke and mirrors we have been fed.
Lashing him does nothing to tell us what is going on. It just gives Faber all of the power and makes us all look like whiny ungrateful children. Why should Faber tell us anything if we’re just going to complain about it?
Let’s say that this is the worst case scenario and Faber is just trying to rope us into Rebel Nature by being a vague wishy-washy manipulative underhanded Rahkshi spawn that only Teridax’s mother could love. We still have the art, and the wake up call that the fans need to work on new story and new stuff rather than endless rehashing. We have learned something valuable here, regardless. I’m not talking emotion, I’m talking strategy, which is simple enough: take what Faber has given and throw the rest out the door. If he’s a manipulator, throw him out the door and go take to Lego our great proposition to bring back Bionicle the way we want it. Don’t be a victim.
Don’t get mad, get even. (In a constructive way, of course. I’m not advocating violence, just taking his power away from him.)
This is true. If Faber is taking advantage of this desperation, we should desert his instagram profile and leave him to drown in obscurity. That’s part of why I won’t accept Legally Distinct Bionicle from him because it’s not official. It’s not really filling what the community really needs.
If you’ve lost interest, you don’t have to support him anymore. Just leave. I don’t follow Faber’s instagram because I don’t have an instagram. I just read the posts in this topic every blue moon or so.
The whole 14B thing seemed to be about baiting people to follow said instagram from the whole Faber Files blog, taking an opportunity for a business meeting to move people around.
It came from 11 years in the Bionicle community, my friend. Whenever a new development happens in the Bionicle community, we sit around and debate its quality into a native oblivion and speculate endlessly about what could be, then debate all of those possibilities. This indicates an emotionally defensive community with a fear of the unknown.
By the way, this isn’t something that either of us can really change. You’re stuck with constructive or destructive expressions of rage, the prosecutor/victim dynamic, and the logic of power positions until the Bionicle community reestablishes a positive relationship with Lego. You can’t escape these features of the community in general. You have to work with them until the desired result is achieved and you can escape the negative system.
Because the negative relationship the Bionicle community has with the creators of the franchise negatively affects the relationships we have between each other. This divides us and pushes us against each other. Fan projects have been lone fans or small groups working on things. We need to stand as a united front. Otherwise, we will just get stuck with nothing.
2 Likes
I mean, saying that we all need to stand as a group to bring back bionicle is well and dandy, but what are we actually supposed to do? Make a petition? Create a project and pitch it to companies? Create some sort of story? How do we solve the problem of too many cooks in the kitchen? What’s the highearchy of this hypothetical group? Who decides what goes or doesn’t go? Who’s to say that everyone will be on board with this singular vision? Especially regarding how divisive the community has been with previous projects, namely the return of the Canon contests?
7 Likes
Maybe you should consider your own relationship with the community members you’re interacting with before analyzing the entire community. I may find your long winded posts entertaining, but I doubt anyone is getting any moments of positive reflection from what you’ve been saying.
No matter what you’ve observed in the greater community, we’re individuals first. It would be in your best interest to remember that.
6 Likes
yes I’m showing back up to this cacophony of noise even though I don’t really want to
He meant this:
This has absolutely not been what the debate has been about. Maybe, possibly, it may have been, long ago when the debate first started. But it quickly became this:
Something which the community has generally unified behind:
Because:
The community’s already doing what you want them to.
That is impossible. What each person in the community wants from Bionicle will never align. Many people would like G1 again, or G1 continued, but that too is utterly impossible.
Because:
Yes I’m reusing this post yet again
That’s all I and Pakari (and I imagine a great number of people) want. For Faber to say what it is he’s doing. That’s all. Yes, the Bionicle community is wholly immature and emotionally irresponsible, and I will add needlessly toxic to the list as well. But that is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
All we want is a description of the product.
Until then, this meme post is looking scarily accurate.
the voices in my head disagree with you
6 Likes
My reaction to this information:
5 Likes
The Bionicle community every time Faber makes a post:
5 Likes
When he posts a new Bionicle logo and enters interviews with TTV and live streams on YouTube, I think it’s fair to say that we all expected more.
Except I’m not, really. You and I are in the same boat here:
Like I said originally,
I’m not here to argue for or against Faber because I don’t give a flying fikou, but I did see arguments being misrepresented, including my own, and that’s what I take issue with.
Again, this wouldn’t be a bad idea if we hadn’t already been doing that just fine without him for over a decade.
I don’t personally believe we needed him to jumpstart anything, let alone needing to channel our emotions at his mismanagement of his own idea into something.
I don’t really think it’s bad to say that fans of something should be barred from criticism of their product.
There’s a difference between wanting (and demanding) quality from those it should be expected of and toxically gatekeeping and lambasting something because it’s different.
A little bit of an anecdote: I’m a part of the Sonic community, and this exact thing is happening to us right now. People saw teaser footage of the new Sonic Frontiers game and saw just how janky and poor quality it was. People voiced their opinions only to have apologists try and defend it with things like “you should wait until they show official gameplay.” Lo and behold, official gameplay gets shown with absolutely no differences in quality. The defense squad comes in once more with “you can’t criticize it until the full game comes out.”
I and many others take issue with that idea. Many feel like Sonic fans were just laying back and accepting mediocrity instead of holding producers accountable for the quality of their product.
All that is to say I don’t necessarily agree that “debating quality” is a sign of an emotionally defensive community. Just one smart enough to not accept any random thing thrown on their plate.
What is of issue is this, however:
Which is problematic for this reason exactly:
5 Likes
At this point I’d like to reassure everyone that I’m not going to continue this discussion. At this point a lot of the language directed at me suggests that I am causing people emotional pain for no good reason, and I’m not in the business of doing that. (22 days ago I was also feeling so much emotional pain reading this discussion here that I had to quit, so you’re in good company. I apologize if I’m projecting, but if I am that is also good reason enough to stop.)
I didn’t know that my views on the subject here (or how I presented them) were painful or “combative” and I hope the people involved will be able to forgive me in time.
3 Likes
It has been a long time since I actively observed Biovival, so I am not extactly informed of its current whereabouts. I am here to say what I would like to see from Faber in best case scenario.
I don’t think we should have unreasonably high exceptations about this. To except something enormous from Biovival will likely lead to disapointment. What I would like to see from Biovival is an interesting world that is Bionicle-esque. Faber already posts images with some text. What if he did this, but instead of the vague talk to fans, he used the images and the text to build an interesting setting? I think this is an easy way for Faber to do Biovival.
5 Likes