The issue here is I can see that actually happening
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The breakdown I see with this analogy is that, in school, you are expected to actively participate in whatever it is.
Faber’s project, on the other hand, requires absolutely zero participation from any of us.
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Is our support for the project not active participation? Is Faber driving hype by sharing images and statements and trying to get us to believe in what he’s doing not asking for participation?
Social media’s kind of all about interaction and participation. If Faber wants to do it completely alone, then why does he keep talking in these vague sweeping terms that appear to address the community and his fanbase, rather than relating specifically to himself?
Sure, Faber developing this project requires zero participation from us, but Faber himself has been trying to get us involved for well over a year. Even if that involvement only takes the form of “Like, Share, and Subscribe for more”
EDIT:
For example:
What process should I be joining, and why?
Lemme reiterate, that’s all I want him to tell me
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“… And turn on the notification bell.”
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If you feel that Faber is being too secretive, couldn’t you just… not do any of that stuff?
I certainly understand why people want more concrete information in order to stay excited for the project, but who says we have to stay excited for the project?
If someone doesn’t like someone else’s project, wouldn’t it make more sense to just not follow the project, rather than demand it be changed?
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Ultimately I think we’ve found that there are two main approaches to this.
Camp 1: Faber is only sharing things out of the goodness of his heart and because he loves the Bionicle concept. He owes us nothing, and therefore the people who are annoyed are being unreasonable because there was never an implication that we’d get more than what he is.
Camp 2: Faber is sharing things both out of the goodness of his hears and because he wants to prove that there is interest in whatever he’s working on. Because of the latter, we are owed at least some explanation of what we are supporting.
I don’t want Faber’s project changed. I want to know what it is, or failing that, what he hopes it will be.
Multimedia collaboration? Product? Cool artwork? Just a way to keep the Bionicle themes alive? Doesn’t matter to me, I just want to know which, so that I can support Faber genuinely rather than just because he’s Faber.
And sure. I don’t HAVE to stay excited for the project. But I’m laying out what needs to happen to keep me interested. That’s… not unreasonable?
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Yes, but how are we supposed to know if we like it or not when we don’t know what it is?
^
What people want changed is his approach to his interactions with the community, not the specifics of the project itself (not that we could even say what we want them changed to considering we don’t even know what they are right now).
I seriously don’t know how people aren’t understanding this.
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Do people actually think this? That they’re entitled to know stuff because one day there might be a product that they could buy?
Are you entitled to know which games Nintendo has in development just because you own a Switch?
This analogy is still painfully awful. Faber is the one with the project - he is the student.
Same way you guys aren’t understanding that the details you want may not yet exist and / or may not be shareable due to business negotiations.
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That’s not at all how business works. I realize that this only makes sense if you know where I’m going with this. Yes, businesses have NDAs for projects, but the matter I am speaking of isn’t about what an NDA would cover.
Let me ask you, what do you think these “details” are that we want to know?
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Suuure. Because he’s definitely planning to walk into a business meating with no details.
slams logo on table “I want to make something out of this!”
“Okay, like what?”
“I dunno. I was hoping you could tell me.”
No business meeting will keep her from saying what he wants to do. That’s what you fail to understand.
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You’re pointedly ignoring the fact that never once have I or Pakari framed this as though we’re entitled because of the potential existence of a product.
If i am going to support something, or someone, I want to know what I am supporting. I am entitled to know what I am supporting.
The details I want to know would in no way be covered by NDA clauses or Business negotiations. I want to know high level stuff like “Does Faber intend purely to inspire with his artwork or is he genuinely working towards some kind of larger goal, because there’s a distinct lack of clarity”
That information would in no way be unable for Faber to disclose because it would in no way be part of the Negotiations with any particular business.
There is absolutely nothing in business law or any standard NDA that would stop someone from saying “I want to create an IP” or “I want to create a multimedia series that will inspire others.” An NDA or Business Negotiation would preclude Faber from stating “I am in talks with Lego to develop a new series of prodcuts,” NOT “I want to take my Biovival idea to market”
I suppose I should once again mention that this kind of stuff is what I do for a living and the specific focus of years of study for me.
I don’t like appealing to experience or “expertise” but I refuse to entertain the assertion that I don’t understand how this stuff works.
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I am still seriously curious what people seem to think “details” or “intentions” means, but yes, everything Kini just said (and has ever said on this topic).
We don’t want to know the how or then when, we want to know the why and the what. Hopes and dreams and plans are not things he is required by law to be silent about, and if he wants to get Bionicle fans on-board, long-term, for his endeavor, then he needs to communicate what it is that’s meant to capture our attention.
Waving a shiny “BIONICLE” flag in everyone’s collective faces isn’t how you do that, because at best it’s sub-par marketing and at worst it’s extortion of our passion for the IP (intentionally or unintentionally, it doesn’t matter).
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New post cause easier:
Again, If Faber can’t tell us the barest minimum of information about what he intends, he also cannot pitch it. This defense is, at its’ heart, either a complete misunderstanding of what myself and others in this thread have stated, or an intentional misrepresentation of such.
You cannot pitch something if you don’t have the vaguest idea of what it is. All I want to know is that vague, high level, purpose question.
All I want to know is What Does Faber Want To Do
I don’t need to know who he’s pitching to. I don’t need to know what his product pitch is. I don’t need to know if it’s going to be a movie, or a toy, or a video game, or even a watch.
All I want to know is Faber’s intent. “Are you doing this to inspire people, or do you have a long term plan and want to bring something, anything, to Market”
Why do I want to know this? Because from his Instagram posts, It’s not clear
EDIT for more clarity:
This topic has essentially devolved into going round and round in circles. At this point, I have stated and restated my stance so many times that if you can’t read through the last 100-130 posts in this topic and understand where myself or others are coming from, then I have no choice but to believe it’s in bad faith.
Let me be abundantly clear: I do not expect anyone to agree with me. I do not expect anyone to feel the same way I do.
I do, however, expect people to Read and Listen.
If you disagree, fine. But don’t misrepresent my, or others, arguments.
If I have, anywhere in this topic, not been clear in my opinions and my reasonings behind them, I apologize and will offer clarity where I can. I do not feel that is the case, but I acknowledge that I know what’s in my head better than anyone else.
EDIT 2: This entire topic is ultimately a difference of opinion between where the responsibility for clarity lies in a creator’s projects. Does the creator owe his fanbase clarity when trying to drum up support, or does he not? Obviously, I would argue that he does, because as stated numerous times I want to know what I’m supporting.
This is not an unreasonable ask. This is not me having a childish tantrum because I’m not getting my way. This is me say, calmly, that Faber’s handling of the community and his project over the last year has rubbed me the wrong way because I still don’t know what he wants me to support.
That is literally it.
There is no argument to the contrary, there is no “You can’t expect him to tell you because blank” there is only that I, personally, Do not support creators on the sole basis of their name or brand, and thus if I am expected to support something, I want to know what that is. I am therefore, well within my rights to criticize a public figure for their failure to release information that would let me know what it is they want me to support. If Faber is trying to leverage love for Bionicle to create a new project, then I, as part of that statistic, am well within my rights to want to know what I am supposedly endorsing.
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Sounds like you want to know if Faber aims to make a TV show / toy line / game etc.
But look at how Rebel Nature went - the core concept was tied to any particular media, allowing flexibility depending on who he pitches to.
Or maybe he’s walking into each meeting with a pitch tailored for each potential partner, be it a comic telling his story, TV show, toy line etc.?
That’s fair enough. I think the answer is “yes, he wants a product”. (Hence the meetings with companies, plural. Rather than something inspirational, that would only need the OK from LEGO.) I also think most people here are in agreement on that, but want to know what that product would be.
That’s exactly what Pakari’s comment sounded like to me.
He talks about being an “intended consumer/audience” as if his entitlement comes from being a potential customer.
Luckily you aren’t expected to support anything, so aren’t owed anything in return for that support.
I understand that you wish to trade your “support”, whatever that entails, for more of Faber’s info. But why should he care to accept that trade?
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That’s a good guess, but it’s impossible to tell, especially based on recent developments.
Are they even? I’m not sure of that.
I think it is also important to regognize that Faber is a freelancer
Because, ultimately, as I’ve stated before, Faber needs us. Because, from my experience as someone with not just 6 years of professional experience in marketing and development, but a full decade before that with TTV, you don’t vaguely hype something like this for no reason.
If Faber is pitching, his instagram following and the reaction to what he’s posting is integral to the pitch. Why? Because it proves existing interest in what he’s doing. That’s a valuable piece of leverage, in fact it’s the most valuable piece of leverage.
Therefore, our support (or lack thereof) is intrinsically linked to the success of Faber’s purported pitches. Thus, I am, by proxy, a statistic being used to prove interest in whatever it is he’s pitching.
Therefore, I am “supporting” Faber’s project. If Faber doesn’t tell me what it is he wants me to be supporting, I will not support it. I am not the only one with this viewpoint, and thus, I am not the only one who’s use as a valuable statistic is tied to whether or not Faber tells us what his high-level plans are.
This is not a difficult concept to grasp - you’re out here talking about NDA’s and Business Negotiations but don’t understand the value of an existing social media following or other forms of support in a business pitch?
I don’t mean to sound like a ■■■■ but seriously, at least meet me in the middle here. I’m not developing these ideas in a vacuum of entitlement.
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Perhaps I do. I’m sure most people would like to know that regardless.
But is it wrong of me to ask what Faber himself wants to do with it? What he envisions it being? I don’t think so.
And just a side note, if this is a product, there’s no way on Earth it’s something physical, especially a plastic toy line. A physical product goes against every environmental concern Faber is passionate about. So to even dream that it’s going to be a LEGO toy or even a written book is unrealistic.
Again, this is not how you pitch a project. That’s a ludicrous amount of work that, in most cases, winds up not paying off.
Why would Faber, a professional in his field with decades of experience, waste time and effort making multiple pitches of vastly different kinds of projects, each with their own nuances and issues and challenges, instead of having a focused idea for his project and iterating on that? Especially when pitches fail more often than they succeed, and usually cost money.
Putting your eggs into multiple baskets and trying to turn your idea into many different kinds of things is not how you make a product. And if this is specifically meant to be a multimedia endeavor, then what is the problem with saying that it is one?
And you can’t say “NDAs” because NDAs don’t stop a game developer from saying they’re developing a video game.
The thing that throws gum into the works with that, though (and what’s been causing our confusion and frustration), is that he makes posts talking purely about wanting to inspire people, and talking about how “ball joints are gone.”
So does he want to just inspire people? Does he want to make a product? Does he want to inspire us to do our own things while he is working on making the product? We don’t know, because he won’t tell us.
And therefore, how can we genuinely help without knowing that?
I have never said I am entitled, nor do I believe I am entitled to anything. As I said before, you’re hyper-fixating on my use of the word, and it feels to me like you’re doing so to try and paint me as overzealous, needy, whiny, and impatient.
What my statement means is this:
Again, it doesn’t seem that way considering a lot of his posts are calls-to-action, and he has turned away people who aren’t supporting him.
Because if he wants support and feedback and aid from the Bionicle community, he better darn care about having that support. And for many people, their support can be (easily) earned by just being clear on what the idea is they’re supporting.
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This is underrated. Can confirm that while you tailor your pitches to an extent depending on who you’re talking to, You don’t take the same thing and develop 30 different versions. You don’t write a movie script and take it to a studio that makes TV shows. You don’t write a movie script and take it to a Studio that makes graphic novels.
You pitch them the Multimedia, overarching story, sure. But that also doesn’t exactly require these supposed “Tailor-made” pitches. Ultimately, that process just wastes time and, I would argue, guarantees nothing gets made.
If that were indeed Faber’s process, then I’d be even more skeptical, considering he has measured experience in this and would apparently have to be literally forgetting base-level knowledge.
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Well, duh. A game developer just needs to say “I’m working on something.” And people know it’s a game. You wouldn’t expect a game developer to make a TV show.
Also, usually game developers make their own product. What Faber is doing is asking someone else to make a product with his ideas.
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