It was discussed on the side towards the end, between me and someone else.
Oh. Well, I don’t think I was there for that, so that explains why I don’t remember it.
I find making protodermis ‘metal but not really’ a massive contrivance to allow for metal to be an element, and even then, my point stands that if they look metal then having metal be an element ruins the juxtaposition of robots in nature.
While I agree it would be funny, plastic isn’t exactly the strongest of materials, and frankly, metal just looks cooler.
I don’t know if this idea has been thrown out already, but has anyone considered combining Onua and Pohatu as characters? Like a Ponua? He’d be like the silent, wise, friendly giant, who was big because of his legs and hunchback, instead of the towering sort of giant (G2 Onua). His skill set would be like Var described, starting with just soil manipulation, or whatever, and then gaining control over stones, plantlife, tectonic plates, etc. Then you’d have room for like a lightning toa (which I’d combine with plasma). I vote Voriki. (Purple and yellow color scheme)
I’d also get rid of ice, and leave it to a “combo” element between wind and water, (assuming wind can manipulate temperature, at some point) OR allow Gali to “unlock” ice powers, and give Kopaka a different element, like separate from lightning.
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No.
I don’t get why some people want to drastically change things like how the elements work beyond recognition, like I’ve said before, at that point just make an original IP.
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I mean, I agree with you, and I’m starting to think that instead of combining the characters, just reassign the elements to either of the two, as the characters themselves are “essential” character types, but skill sets are pretty similar.
I’m of the opinion that pohatu should become nature, while onua becomes a combined earth/stone, I don’t mind changing around the characters elements a bit to clear up confusion, but once you start drastically changing the framework of the elements you go too far.
What’s so contrived? I mean, if we’re going to make them organisms that are capable of self-replication (and I’m pretty sure none of us want love to be de-canonized again, so they absolutely should), it makes sense that their exteriors should be comprised of a material that can grow organically. Unless they just grow metal like flesh, which I guess could be a thing if it’s somehow in their diet.
But if it’s still clearly not natural, since protodermis wouldn’t naturally occur in their world anywhere, the sci-fi/fantasy contrast stays intact.
But whatever, maybe Toa of Iron just can’t control Matoran because of their inherent life-force, which stops Toa from manipulating any elements they happen to have in their body (such as Water and Air, which ultimately are going to be in a breathing organism).
This makes no sense. Pohatu and Onua are fine as characters; the elements are the problem. Just merge Stone and Earth and give Pohatu something else. I don’t get why everyone seems to think there’s another solution that somehow works better.
Why? Ice is a distinct power set from Water. It doesn’t need to go anywhere.
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I have, and I rather like the changes to Earth, but it still doesn’t explain why Nature should be a thing!
The changes to earth would combine the elements of Earth and The Green, and therefore make Nature irrelevant to begin with!
This is what I said to do instead, in a later post, if you didn’t see it.
I want to see something new, and I’m not saying get rid of ice, completely. I’d be totally fine with an ice toa, later down the line, but with a different team, with other different assets. I don’t know. I just feel it needs some spicing up.
So, you (and others) want all/some of the really interesting/cool elements upfront, and the generic ones later? Seems kind of backwards.
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Ah, I thought you were referring to Earth as Nature, obviously there was some sort of confusion here. I think you’re talking about some other pitch someone else made.
This is literally the worst reason to change something. The story’s been changed, the Rahkshi have been changed, and I’m sure matoran society will also have some changes made. But you can’t change everything, if you do:
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Yup. I’m on board with the change to Earth, but I think Nature as it’s own element doesn’t make much sense.
It’s contrived in that in order to make metal not op you have to make a substance for the beings to be made of that looks and acts like metal, but isn’t, rather than not have metal as an element.
I don’t think you really get my point, if you have one of the elements be metal, which bar semantics is basically what protodermis is, then the contrast between metallic beings and their environment and elemental powers being natural is lost, at least partially.
Combining earth and jungle makes no sense, at least earth and stone are both dirt-rocks.
Again, long-form for ‘for no good reason’.
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It’s not so much a combination as a redefinition. Think of it more as ‘terrain’ as opposed to the Earth part of the terrain. He is in tune with his surroundings, and he can subtly ■■■■■ the earth, or suggest for the plants to aid him. It also gets rid of stone, and removes the problem of apparent telekinesis.
… those are two entirely different power sets.[quote=“Doremarpool, post:401, topic:33898”]
It also gets rid of stone
[/quote]
Wait, what, how does combining earth and jungle get rid of stone?
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Either get rid of the element or don’t. If the element stays, keep it where it lies within the main cast. Changes to reboots are fine, we need them; but change for change’s sake is not good. It needs some inherent benefit, some interesting quality, in order to work. For example, making the tribes a bunch of city-states and not all allied groups.
But Iron as an element offers a unique and interesting power set. If it can be included without being OP via a solution that makes sense and isn’t complicated, why shouldn’t it be? And this is especially true if we’re assuming it replaces Stone.
But metal is already a part of the world. Machinery isn’t just metal, it’s the sum of its parts. The contrast doesn’t come from Matoran being metallic, it comes from them being partly mechanical. Having just latent metal lying about doesn’t devalue this.
True, and the idea is that we are creating a new one by combining these two old ones.
But they don’t make any sense as a combined unit. They’re entirely different things. The abilities offered by Plantlife are dramatically unlike those offered by Earth. These are things that make more sense as their own elements.
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Remember, the Toa Code also exists, a significant part of which being that they cannot betray the Matoran is any way, shape or form. If a Toa of Iron/Metal, does just so happen to go rogue, then the simple nature of Protodermis (as suggested by you) would prevent them. This can also work in the story as an implementation by the creators of the Matoran/Toa to dissuade Toa of Iron from simply killing everybody.
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