Could Hydraxon's face piece be a mask?

LEGO BIONICLE
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well then what is the point of this topic?

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It’s always been called a helmet, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s a duck.

The set designers obviously intended it to be a mask, even if the story team decided it’s only decorative. Ditto Maxilos.

If I had to take a guess, they probably made this choice to preserve their name list. Approved names were a limited resource at that time, and if they gave the mask a power, they would have felt obligated to give it a name.

Though Hydraxon and Maxilos’ masks aren’t any canon Kanohi, and are referred to as helmets, it would be a pretty huge waste to say once and for all that no kanohi in the universe looks like that when so many kanohi have no canon appearance. I always use Maxilos’ mask as the Great Kiril personally.

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You’re asking the wrong questions, friend. The real question is, who modelled a Kanohi after Hydraxon’s face?
(would be interesting if Hydraxon, or another of his species, was reputable enough that the Hagah chose to honor him through one of their masks)

The point of this topic is that I didn’t know it was confirmed.

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I saw a replica of Hydraxon’s mask piece called the mask of imposition on shapeways and Personally like the idea of the original Hydraxon having a mask before he died and Dekar just has a replica or non working mask

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What’s your source for that? Someone putting something on Shapeways is not a canon source.

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when I said I believe I meant it as “I like the idea” not this is canon but it would be cool if the mask of imposition thing was real but I do personally believe the original hydraxon had a kanohi mask not the dekar version

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Unfortunately, Hydraxon’s faceplate is not a Kanohi, and its shape is not even based off a Kanohi.

Source: Official Greg Dialogue | Page 275

This leaves this part somewhat invalid for use as a Kanohi mask in any moc that would represent a character that would normally wear a Kanohi mask. However, there is still a way to redeem this part as being a valid Kanohi shape. Follow me as we delve into the lore of mask making.

Part 1: Mask Powers

These are known facts about mask powers :

  • The power of a Kanohi mask depends on the power of the one or more Kanoka disks used to forge it. Source: Encyclopedia Updated

  • There are 8 basic Kanoka power types. Source: Encyclopedia Updated

  • There are 1 disk power type for each element (these are called Toa Disks and are basically Elemental Disks) Source: Toa Disk - BIONICLEsector01

  • Toa (Elemental) Disks can be combined between each other to create new powers. Source: Chat with Greg Farshtey | Page 717

  • Toa (Elemental) Disks can be combined with the basic 8 types. Souce: Chat with Greg Farshtey | Page 136

  • The order of combination of the Kanoka does not matter. Source: Chat with Greg Farshtey | Page 717

From the numbers of different Kanoka powers that gives us and all the possible combinations of 2, 3, 4, etc more disks together, we get a total of 25165823 combinations. This number excludes combinations that have both Light and Shadow as they have been known to cancel eath other. It is possible that they are not mutually exclusive for the purpose of Kanoka combining however, but that doesn’t matter much. The point is that is an extremely big number. Credits to @Wolk for the computation by the way.

These are known facts about elemental powers :

Here comes the speculation part. Considering Gravity is naturally rare, and if Toa of Magnetism and Iron have all been killed and their population closely monitored by the Makuta, it stands to reason that Toa (Elemental) Disks of at least these three elements would be hard to come by. If at least one type of Kanoka is hard to come by, then all the combinations involving this Kanoka would be hard to try for mask makers. This would easily leave huge holes in the big numbers of possible combinations. These combinations would never have been tried.

I suppose Matoran could create Toa (Elemental) Disks even without a Toa to give it to, but I suspect they would not be likely to do it on a regular basis. However, we know there are smugglers and traders in the MU. Therefore these disks, while hard to come by, could still be obtained if some Matoran would want to invest the extra effort in acquiring it. Think like the misprint masks of 2001 for example. Vakama says “It was the time of my kind, the time of mask makers … those for whom the art of creating great Kanohi Masks from Kanoka Disks was all that we lived for.” in Legends of Metru Nui so I’m sure some intrepid mask makers could acquire those normally very rare disks.

Therefore, the canon rules of mask making would support the discovery of brand new masks powers at any time in the story.

Part 2: Mask Shapes

Now, let’s talk about mask shapes. These are known facts about mask shapes :

  • When designing masks, Matoran mask makers are inspired by shapes that they have previously seen elsewhere. Source: Official Greg Discussion | Page 74

  • In rare occasions, a Kanohi mask can be shaped in the likeness of another Kanohi in honor of a past hero. Source: Web of Shadows, Appendix: Origin of the Rahaga.

Here comes the speculation. By combining the basic idea of the two points above, it seems plausible to me that a Matoran mask maker could decide, upon discovering a new mask power, to shape the mask in the likeness of any shape he might have seen anywhere, including the face of another being. It could be incidental, in the sense that the matoran might think he was inventing a new shape while he would actually be channeling his inspiration from an old memory. This is common in art. Or it could be done on purpose, to honor a past hero.

Imagine a Matoran that nearly died in some circumstances and was rescued by a being that was not wearing a Kanohi. He might have this old, hazy memory of the being saving him right before he fell unconscious and unintentionally shape a mask inspired by this old memory, or he could perfectly remember the face of that being and explicitely decide to honor him. Both cases make sense.

Part 3: Hydraxon

Now, let’s talk about Hydraxon. These are known facts about Hydraxon :

  • He was initially part of the Hand of Artakha and was later recruited into the Order of Mata-Nui by Helryx. Source: Official Greg Dialogue | Page 110

  • The Hand of Artakha was founded with the goal of maintaining peace and pursuing justice in the MU. Some members of the HoA were undisciplined though, and caused massive damage while trying to do good. The organization was forced to disband because it ultimately caused more harm than good. Source: Encyclopedia Updated

Here comes the speculation. Since Hydraxon was recruited into the Order of Mata-Nui by Helryx, it would make sense that we would be one of the more heroic members of the HoA, as opposed to the other, more destructive ones. While the Order of Mata-Nui was a secret order, the Hand of Artakha was not. Therefore, it is possible that Hydraxon was known by at least some people in the MU as being a heroic figure working as a force for good.

Part 4: Conclusion

If you read this far, you probably saw it coming from miles away. From what I could gather from the canon on the the matter, it seems the following scenario would be entirely possible:

  1. Hydraxon is seen as heroic by at least one matoran mask maker while working for the HoA.

  2. That Matoran mask maker discovers a new mask power later on and shapes the mask in the likeness of Hydraxon’s face.

Whether Hydraxon was widely regarded as heroic or not does not matter in practice. He could have inadvertently caused a lot of damage and therefore not being seen as very heroic by most while still saving that particular mask maker at the very last moment before he died. This would be enough for that mask maker to honor Hydraxon with a mask shaped in the likeness of his face or simply be inspired by the memory of the face of that being saving his life.

There, you have it. Hydraxon’s face was not shaped in the likeness of a previously existing Kanohi. However, no canon rule seem to invalidate the possibility that a more recent Kanohi might have been shaped in the likeness of Hydraxon’s face.

Part 5: Call to action

I have made my point about the fact that a Kanohi shaped like Hydraxon’s face would not break the established canon. Now, to actually make it canon. It requires a particular timing. It requires canon contests, of course, which are happening right now.

If we make it so that the winning entry of one of the Toa Hagah contest is wearing Hydraxon’s face as a Kanohi mask, we would have canonized that particular shape as being the shape of a Kanohi of unknown power. That LEGO part representing Hydraxon’s face, previously left out as being just a face or a helmet, would have become a true Kanohi. The Hagah contest provides a unique opportunity to make it work because the mask shapes used by the Hagah are not even linked to the mask powers. This is a one of a kind opportunity to salvage this poor LEGO part and gain one more actual valid Kanohi to use !

What are your thoughts on this ?

Edit: It turns out I made a lof research that were not really needed because Greg explicitely already stated that it would be possible for new masks to be shaped in other shapes, with Hydraxon’s face as being cited as an actual example: Official Greg Discussion | Page 271

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now this is an idea, my friend.

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This is very good analysis of Kanohi lore, and Bionicle lore in general. Very good job.

I’m still not convinced that we should feel obligated to make Hydraxon’s face a Kanohi, but you have proven beyond doubt that it is an option that should be allowed.

(And I suppose the extra lore depth would be kind of cool…)

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Or, to use a more Farshteyan explanation: there’s a Kanohi that happens to look like Hydraxon’s face but has no real connection to him whatsoever, and it’s just a big coincidence.

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Honestly, I wish I had the time for Moccing and the silver Hydraxon mask for the Hagah contest! I found the black one at a reseller but didn’t pick it up at the time. Silly me.

And yeah, considering the limited amount of officially-produced masks in the G1 canon, it would be nice to have another option. Especially one that comes in more than one color! I am in favor of this

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A great argument, you’ve convinced me it’s possible…

However, I’m afraid I likely won’t vote for any entry with hydraxon’s Mask, for the same reason I probably won’t vote for any custom Mask shapes: I’d prefer the Hagah have known Mask shapes.

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@Eljay I see that you have merged my post with this one. I am not sure it makes a lot of sense considering this one is pretty old already but maybe that can help my case as I suspect the people who replied to this older thread will be notified as well ? Could you please change the title however ? Hydraxon does not wear a mask, that is a known fact. My entire post was built on that postulate so the current title does feel out of touch with the very point of my original post.

@TheJerminator Of course nobody should feel obligated to do anything ! However you make a good point. I wrote a lot about the “how”, not that much about the “why”. Simply, when looking at possible options for gold and silver Kanohi masks in existing Bionicle parts, I realized that the choice was quite limited. Canonizing a new Kanohi with the same shape of Hydraxon’s faceplate would increase the number of valid Kanohi options in silver. Especially since this particular part actually exists in two different colors, which is uncommon for most masks past 2002. Thanks to @TheChronicler for pointing that out.

@SirKeksalot Well sure, that also works, though I’m all for avoiding these kind of explanations when possible… :stuck_out_tongue:

@Racie02 I understand and respect your point. I just want to point out that, at least, Hydraxon’s faceplate has been designed by official LEGO designers. In a way, that makes it slightly more “legitimate” for purists than truly custom fan-made mask shapes.

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I can, is this any better?

Personally, for this contest, I don’t really care too much about the difference between a 3d printed/custom drawn mask and an official Lego piece. Like, I might vote for an entry with a 3d mask from the comics.

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Alright, I misunderstood what you meant by “known mask shapes”.

Thanks for the title update. I think this one encompasses both the original post and mine, which is fair I guess.

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It’s been my head-canon that Hydraxon has his helmet molded in the shape of a mask representing a strong trait of his. In my mind, his helmet is in the shape of a mask of erasing, which would symbolize his unwavering mind and loyalties.

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Unfortunately, Greg specifically decided that Hydraxon’s faceplate was not shaped to look like a previously existing Kanohi. However, it can still work with established canon when taken the other way around ! A Matoran mask maker could, upon discovering how to create a mask with the power of erasing, have decided to shape the mask in the likeness of Hydraxon’s faceplate as a symbol of his unwavering mind and loyalties. Thus this trait of his would be immortalized forever in this particular mask power shape that anyone could wear to celebrate him.

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Dude, going through BS01 I found out that every Toa Hagah’s masks are based on actual masks worn by past heroes:
1)Official Greg Dialogue | Page 174
2)Official Greg Dialogue | Page 176

With the Hagah Contest happening, if a character wearing Hydraxon’s “helmet” becomes canonized then that “helmet” is now officially a Kanohi though it’ll have a different power since a Toa Hagah is wearing it.

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Precisely. This would actually be perfect because the LEGO piece would be canonized as a Kanohi without forcing a precise power on it. So people could use it as an actual Kanohi without having to worry about the mask power matching their character or anything. That would be awesome !

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Carefully reading the rules for the contest, apparently if the artist has permission they can change the look of the mask. So it’s not a total guarantee, I think.

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